[lit-ideas] Re: TLP1: Elements and their relations in giving the sense of 'p'
- From: Donal McEvoy <donalmcevoyuk@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 10:03:03 +0000 (GMT)
Phil Enns once wrote:-
>> For Wittgenstein in the TLP, the sense of the picture comes
> from the
> relations between elements. The elements are the means for
> fixing the
> picture against reality, but the elements do not contribute
> to the
>> sense of the picture. >
Donal commented yesterday:-
> So "elements do not contribute to the sense of the
> picture"? Seems pretty clear what this means. Unless of
> course it is just very badly expressed.
But is this comment fair? Does Phil really mean elements contribute _nothing_
to the sense of 'p'? Or does Phil mean only, as per the dot on a map when
considered just as a dot in isolation, that in isolation the elements have no
sense but only gain propositional sense when put into determinate "relations"
with other elements?
Phil in a previous post:-
"Donal McEvoy wrote:
"you had failed to provide a quotation in the text where W explicitly
states that "'elements' contribute nothing to the 'sense'of a picture"
As far as I know, this quote does not appear anywhere in the TLP. I
never claimed Wittgenstein wrote these particular words. I did
however claim that this reflects an argument in the TLP, and on
several occasions gave arguments in support of my claim. I am afraid
the best I can do is offer interpretations supported by arguments."
This appears to mean that, for Phil, "an argument in the TLP" "reflects" the
"claim" that "'elements' contribute nothing to the 'sense' of a picture" - and
this surely means that, for Phil, the TLP takes the position that elements
never play any role in the sense of a 'p'.
If Phil stands by this and is ready to defend it, then it would seem neither
Robert Paul nor I have any need to apologize for mis-interpreting Phil and that
Phil's view that he has been misinterpreted has just led to everyone's time
being wasted either apologising or re-checking his posts.
Donal
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