Robert Paul quotes: "'... A key dispute is whether, as Phil Enns claimed [affair], W's TLP offers the view that the sense of a proposition is determined only by the relations between the elements of the proposition; or whether, as I maintain(ed), the sense of 'p' also depends on the character or content of the elements.'" and then comments: "If this is what Phil claimed, then he was mistaken in claiming it. The sense of a proposition is, roughly, what would be the case if it were true. (False sentence have a sense; their falsity could not be determined otherwise.)" I did not make the claim that is ascribed to me above. For example, on 20 December, I wrote: "For Wittgenstein in the TLP, the sense of a picture lies in the states of affairs, that is the relations between things, that are represented." I stand by what I wrote earlier and am willing to defend what I, in fact, wrote. Sincerely, Phil Enns ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html