[lit-ideas] Re: Leftism and Islamism

  • From: Judith Evans <judithevans001@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 18:20:53 +0100 (BST)

--- Lawrence Helm <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Here is an interesting open-forum discussion of the
> association of Leftism
> and Islamism:

Thank you, Lawrence. I don't entirely agree with
"Spinoza" -- your source for "New Socialists" -- (who
is anyway talking specifically about the Netherlands,
of course) but thought I'd quote anyway:

I think we should learn not to use the word 'lefty'
for both social democrats and communists/stalinists
etc. It's really stupid (escuzer le mot) to equate the
moderate left with communism (totalitarian) and than
to equate this with islamicism.

The centre left (the vast majority of Europe's left)
is mainly people like Schroeder, Blair, Jospin etc.
and are the 'social democrats'. These are the typical
PC brigade in Europe; they are the people that care
too much for the weak in society: they are the people
that think muslim immigrants should be shielded and
protected. But they are in no way 'totalitarian'.
Sure, their PCism may be suffocating from time to
time, their view may be naive, idealistic and a sure
recipe for sisater but they are not the new Pol Pots,
Mao's or Stalins of this world. Saying such a thing
would be the same as calling Bill Clinton a 'nazi'
since on a world scale he's a moderate righty.

The readical left is not a very homogenous group.
There's actually at least 3 or 4 seperate groups.

1. the environmentalists (that's the kind of people
that will try to harass genetic scientists, destroy
crops, or release monkeys from the zoo)

2. the (new) socialists.

3. anarchists

4. communists/stalinists/leninists

It's groups 3 and 4 that will resort to violence and
vandalism, whilst it's group 4 that is usually in
league with the islamists. Of course other lefties
will march along with muslims and pacificts against
globalism, 'american imperialism' etc.

In Holland the most leftwing part are the socialists:
they are actually rather HARSH towards muslims and
their lack of intergration and would agree with a lot
of what the late Pim Fortuyn (populist rightwing)
would have to say about them. In general most of the
excentric leftwing is quite anti america, pro
palestine etc. and in some cases will work with
Islamists (like in Belgium where the stalinists joined
up with Abu Jahjah) but in other cases will be opposed
to them.

What does this mean? Well, the moderate left (social
democrats cum suis) is lenient towards muslims,
tollerant and sometimes willing to turn a blind eye
towards the bad teachings of Islam. The extreme left
is quite fragmented and either actively working with
both radical or moderate muslims or opposing them
quite a bit. In Germany the 'Gruenen' (Green Party) is
extremely Peecee (although some of their ministers
have been violent vandalists themselves in their
time!) whilst the Socialists (not the Social
democrats) in Holland are actively working on good
citizenship for our new countrymen (many of which are
muslims) and are also supporting bills to crub down
their Islamic schools.

now: what's the "Left"'s stance on the war in the

Judy Evans, Cardiff

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