how does jaws stay in business; was RE: authorization issues
- From: "Chip Orange" <Corange@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 15:46:03 -0400
This is an interesting question.
One point I'd like to make is that I believe they've lost a tremendous
amount of their market share over the last few years (of the screen
reader market, not over their entire product range). The rising success
of Window Eyes, System Access, and others like NVDA as you point out is
evidence of this.
As to the why they haven't lost it all: in my opinion it's sheer
inertia. There are many assistive technology instructors and counselors
out there who are used to teaching jaws, used to purchasing jaws, and
they aren't going to change. They often hold the purse-strings, either
directly or via their recommendations, and this causes the old stand-by
to be purchased every time.
Next, there are a lot of blind users who don't want to change; it's a
lot of effort to learn to use a screen reader, and I'm as guilty as the
next person of saying I'm too busy, etc., and so I'll just buy one more
upgrade rather than evaluate what my choices are, and then dedicate
myself to making the effort to learn something new.
I think the time payment plan, the lack of copy protection
(authorization), and the ability to run on any version of windows
without having to pay $200 more for a "professional" version, and now
the spectacularly designed scripting abilities and standard language,
will all allow things to change. They will each be reason enough for
someone to switch.
My complaints about support aren't new. I've had them, and they've
surfaced here, ever since jaws was purchased by freedom scientific.
When I talked to the head of tech support about them, as it seems Joel
did, his answer at one time was for me to call the phone tech support,
as he said they were more knowledgeable than the email tech support
people. That to him was a sufficient answer. I could not convince him
that a lot more technical information could be conveyed via email, it
could be evaluated by multiple people, and could be done at any time of
the day or night. I couldn't convince him that even his best weren't
good enough, and it appears to me they've gone downhill since then.
email tech support is one more reason I should have put on my list of
reasons why GW micro is succeeding; it's important to a lot of us.
I hope this goes some way to answering the question you raised.
Chip
------------------------------
Chip Orange
Database Administrator
Florida Public Service Commission
Chip.Orange@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
(850) 413-6314
(Any opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not
necessarily reflect those of the Florida Public Service Commission.)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Gerald Levy
> Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 3:06 PM
> To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: authorization issues
>
>
> I haven't dealt with FS tech support, but if what you have
> experienced is
> really true, why would anyone use JAWS, especially since all
> the other
> commercially available screen readers are less expensive?
> Not to mention
> the ever-growing number of free screen readers like NVDA and
> Thunder. So
> how does JAWS maintain its position as the leading screen
> reader? I'm not
> defending FS, but if they really do treat their blind and
> visually impaired
> customers with such callous indifference, how do they remain
> in business?
> After all, they are not the domineering monopoly that Microsoft is.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Yardbird" <yardbird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 2:23 PM
> Subject: Re: authorization issues
>
>
> > HI Chip,
> >
> > Just to say I understand exactly the sort of frustrating
> experiences
> > you're
> > describing below, because I've had them myself, more than
> ever during this
> > year of Jaws 9, never mind which build. Uninstalling and
> reinstalling,
> > over
> > and over, has never rectified one single problem I've ever
> called tech
> > support for help with, and yet they've insisted on my
> repeating that drill
> > over and over just as you say. At one point this year, I
> spent a total of
> > something close to six hours on the phone, wrote detailed and well
> > organized
> > reports on my "issues" and sent them to the top of the tech support
> > department to be reviewed before someone from Tier 2 called
> me, but in a
> > couple of cases, the reps who were assigned to call me
> either weren't
> > given
> > my report to look at (which the head guy who shall remain
> unnamed) had
> > emphasized to me how important and valuable my taking the
> time to make
> > such
> > reports would be to them) or had received it but hadn't
> read it, and began
> > from nothing. In one case, I insisted that the guy just sit
> there and read
> > my report while I waited, paying for long distance. That
> gfew cents was
> > worth less than my time. of course, despite the intervening
> minutes of
> > discussion, most of what we wound up doing was me being led
> by the hand to
> > uninstall and reinstall five different ways, as if it
> always had to be
> > some
> > glitch I'd introduced by improperly installing and
> configuring jaws. Like
> > hell. What is it, a Model you've got to know how to
> practically rebuild
> > all
> > by yourself in your own garage or have a chauffer trained
> as a mechanic if
> > you want to drive one? That's a rhetorical question.
> >
> > anyway, I manage to survive with all the glitches and bugs
> that remain for
> > me, and I have to admit I'm grateful for it working as well
> as it does,
> > because it enable me in a way that still astonishes me and
> fills me with
> > gratitude compared to the despair I felt when I began to
> lose my ability
> > to
> > see clearly enough and read a little over ten years ago. So
> part of me
> > still
> > feels as if it's a gift and a miracle.
> >
> > But the complaints are real, nonetheless. And if I had the
> money to spend,
> > I'd consider jumping ship, too, but I can't deal with that,
> financially.
> > And
> > life will go on, not all that badly despite my annoyance.
> >
> > Which is a long-winded way of pumping my fist in the air
> and yelling "you
> > go, boy!"
> >
> > Joel
> > desite juming graatiude rebuilt configuitng configuing nd imporperly
> > intalling instlling intduced intereducesbine gntohing.at repeated
> > yo[exseyou're describing
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Chip Orange" <Corange@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 6:32 AM
> > Subject: RE: authorization issues
> >
> >
> > Thanks Cher, but that really sounds like a problem with an
> early build
> > of jaws 9. If uac caused problems in jaws, we'd all
> certainly know of
> > it by now.
> >
> > I am very reluctant to get on the phone with jaws tech
> support again.
> > I've spent many hours reinstalling everything for them on the last
> > problem I reported. Reinstallations seems to be their *only*
> > trouble-shooting measure. When I asked for the problem to
> be escalated,
> > the person I was working with said "no", because he was the
> escalation
> > he said.
> >
> > It seems every time I had done a reinstallation I hadn't
> done it quite
> > right according to him (you didn't delete the directory
> afterwards using
> > narrator; you didn't also uninstall and reinstall the video
> driver; you
> > did a repair when a uninstall and reinstall would have been better,
> > etc.).
> >
> > After going through many calls like that I finally stopped
> calling. I'm
> > now requisitioning Window Eyes from my employer. When it
> comes, with
> > it's new scripting feature with vba as it's language, I'm going to
> > switch. I've already gotten much better pre-sales tech
> support from GW
> > Micro than I've ever gotten from FS.
> >
> > Sorry for the soapbox, I'll get off now and will try not to
> climb back
> > on.
> >
> > Anyone who's really dedicated to jaws is free to pass this
> along to the
> > head of their tech support and/or sales; it's fine to let them know
> > they've lost at least one customer to poor quality tech
> support, and to
> > better tech support from a competitor who hadn't even sold
> me a product
> > yet.
> >
> > And, as icing on the cake, they don't have any such
> copy-protection, so
> > no authorization issues to deal with!!! Hooorrraaayyyy!!!!!
> (that's my
> > current problem I just posted about solved!)
> >
> > And, no difference in versions, so no "professional" version to deal
> > with for certain versions of the operating system!!!!!
> > Hooorrraaayyyyy!!!!!
> >
> > Chip
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Chip Orange
> > Database Administrator
> > Florida Public Service Commission
> >
> > Chip.Orange@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > (850) 413-6314
> >
> > (Any opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not
> > necessarily reflect those of the Florida Public Service Commission.)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > On Behalf Of Cher Bosch
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 9:08 AM
> > To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: Re: authorization issues
> >
> >
> > Not exactly the same, but similar... On a Lonova ThinkPad I set
> > up last fall with VISTA home (premium, I think) and the
> first build of
> > JAWS9, we ended up having to disable UAC to keep JAWS from switching
> > into demo mode. If I remember, evrytime UAC came up, JAWS
> switched to
> > demo.
> >
> > Cher
> >
> >
> >
> >>>> "Chip Orange" <Corange@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 7/7/2008 10:05 AM
> >>>>
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > On my vista laptop I've noticed that if I switch from my
> > wireless nic to my wired nic, my jaws authorization
> suddenly switches
> > into demo mode. If I update it while using the wired nic
> until it's a
> > registered copy again, then when I switch back to my
> wireless nic it's
> > an unregistered demo copy again.
> >
> > Has anyone seen this happen? On my thinkpad laptop, which was
> > running xp and an earlier version of jaws, I frequently
> switched between
> > wired and wireless without a problem, so I'm guessing this
> is related to
> > the latest build or vista, and was just wondering if anyone else is
> > seeing this?
> >
> > thanks.
> >
> > Chip
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Chip Orange
> > Database Administrator
> > Florida Public Service Commission
> >
> > Chip.Orange@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > (850) 413-6314
> >
> > (Any opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do
> > not necessarily reflect those of the Florida Public Service
> Commission.)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > JFW related links:
> > JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/
> > Scripting mailing list:
> > http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com
> > JFW List instructions:
> > To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
> > jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the
> subject line.
> > Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> >
> > If you have any concerns about the list, post received from
> the list, or
> > the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather
> > contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> --
> JFW related links:
> JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/
> Scripting mailing list:
> http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com
> JFW List instructions:
> To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
> jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the
> subject line.
> Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
>
> If you have any concerns about the list, post received from
> the list, or the way the list is being run, do not post them
> to the list. Rather contact the list owner at
> jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
--
JFW related links:
JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/
Scripting mailing list:
http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com
JFW List instructions:
To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.
Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or the
way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather contact the
list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Other related posts:
- » how does jaws stay in business; was RE: authorization issues
