[isalist] Re: SME LAN and ISA
- From: "Glenn P. JOHNSTON" <glenn.johnston@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 17:33:00 +1000
Just to add some more oil to the fire.
There a 2 small cooperates ( 200 - 300 employees each) here in
Australia that I have had an on going relationship with with several
years, and they both have a corporate policy, that NO software will go
near their production LAN, until at least 6 moths has passed after the
official release. To break the policy requires Chief operating officers
approval. To date, no mater how compelling the argument for an upgrade,
neither COO has signed of on an early upgrade. Neither company even
rolled XPPSP2 out across the desktops until it had been in the field for
6 months.
Their approach is ":Let some other bunny find the problems".
Cautious, but very prudent.
________________________________
From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Greg Mulholland
Sent: Monday, 22 May 2006 16:53
To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [isalist] Re: SME LAN and ISA
I get the point but ultimately you dont know if ISA is or isnt going to
break in Beta or even behave weirdly. regardless of ISA or Exchange or
near completion in the life cycle. My boss would tear me a new one if
anything happened and he knew that i was using Beta. Isa 2006 is beta
software and hence falls under the Beta "blanket" regardless of its
"stance" in the security world or record or reputation, Exchange and
Bind would be the same, just because ye olde version worked well doesn't
mean the new one will and i'm not about to find that out the hard way. I
was always brought up not to do testing in a production environment and
from the reasons given and ones i have seen i do not have enough
persuasion to change my mind...
I think it all depends on whether you think that the steps you take
increase the chance of risk to YOUR network and for that matter your
job. Also whether the need for the beta software is great at that point
in time, that is to say what improvements, security or functionally or
otherwise is a factor in the overall decision. For me there has never
been a need to rush at beta software in my environments (home excluded)
all our testing of new products is done in a lab environment to
ascertain the best way to attack upgrades and asses functionality etc
etc. So i guess we can differ on this and i suspect the gallery will be
divided on this one. might be a good topic for a poll on isaserver.org
and lucky prize for one of the voters, remember we used to do those!!
Greg Mulholland
________________________________
From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx on behalf of Thor (Hammer of God)
Sent: Mon 22/05/2006 2:32 PM
To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; Glenn P. JOHNSTON
Subject: [isalist] Re: SME LAN and ISA
We're talking about someone running it on their own LAN. Not sure where
the "board" or "business owner" stuff came in. I'm not suggesting that
a professional network/security specialist install beta software on
customer's production networks. I'm specifically talking about ISA
2006, as I stated earlier. It's tight. I run it, I've tested it (and
trust me, I'm made aware of issues that MSFT sometimes never sees) and I
have no problem with someone who knows what they are doing running it on
their own LAN. This isn't some blanket statement about beta in general:
I said, "Don't listen to Greg. Use ISA2006 all you want (if you know
what you are doing.)"
Comparing "full version public release" to "beta" has absolutely no
meaning whatsoever unless you know what has been changed between
releases. I participate in many different beta programs- and I've seen
software go from "beta" to "RC" to "RTM" without a single bit being
changed.
If you know what you are doing, and know where the product is in the
development cycle, and are willing to be responsible for you own
decisions in regard to ISA 2006, then it is OK to deploy it. I do
this, and am fine with it. And I'm somewhat confident that I won't be
looking for another job should an issue arise.
We're professionals here. Let's not make blanket statements where they
are not applicable.
t
On 5/21/06 6:43 PM, "Glenn P. JOHNSTON" <glenn.johnston@xxxxxxxxxxx>
spoketh to all:
From what I have seen of ISA2006 on my play LAN, it seems
stable, works well and to date, I have found no issues, and while I have
not done full speed tests, I have a gut feel that the performance is
better.
However, It's got nothing to do with skill set, being
comfortable or anything like.
Purely on principle, I would not put any beta, or pre lease
software near a production LAN. This comes from 25 years supporting and
developing systems in corporate environments.
What about this situation;
There is some small bug / hole in ISA2006, that, as yet is it
undetected, it small, it's new and it's specific to ISA2006, it's
obscure, but it's there.
You put ISA2006 on a production LAN, and some one on the
internet finds it, finds the bug / hole, makes use of it, and hacks in
and a customer list find it's way onto the internet, or in the hands of
a competitor.
There is an investigation, possibly with law enforcement called
in, the board finds out there was beta software on their production LAN,
you're shot your self in the foot, you are in an indefensible position.
Unlikely, yes.
Is there any bug / holes in ISA2006, my suspicion is probably
not, but the jury is still out deliberating on that one.
Would it be OK on a production LAN, probably yes, it will work,
and work without issues.
But, if an issue does occur, will any board or business owner
support using beta or pre release on their production system, not
likely, more likely, you're looking for another job. There also could
very well be legal issues, where you're exposed yourself to some
liability claim.
It's just not a position you want to be in, no matter how sure
you are that every 'i' is dotted, and 't' crossed, you just don't want
to be there in the the unlikely event of an issue.
If it's full version public released software, the situation
would be a lot different, with beta, you done like a dinner.
________________________________
From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Thor (Hammer of God)
Sent: Monday, 22 May 2006 10:59
To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [isalist] Re: SME LAN and ISA
People who know what they are doing. If you are not
comfortable with your skillset, then don't do it. But since you
question our sanity, that means that you just know something we don't.
Please give us a list of your specific issues with ISA2006 and the
security vulnerabilities you have discovered.
t
On 5/21/06 5:50 PM, "Glenn P. JOHNSTON"
<glenn.johnston@xxxxxxxxxxx> spoketh to all:
Who in there right mind would use a product beta on a
production LAN ????
We have enough problems with the day to day stuff, and
users, and business needs , and.........
Why make extra problems of our own making !
________________________________
From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Thor (Hammer of God)
Sent: Monday, 22 May 2006 08:02
To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; Greg Mulholland
Subject: [isalist] Re: SME LAN and ISA
Don't listen to Greg. Use ISA2006 all you want (if you
know what you are doing.)
t
On 5/21/06 2:21 PM, "Greg Mulholland"
<greg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> spoketh to all:
and dont use isa 2006!! its beta.. use 2004..
Greg Mulholland
________________________________
From: isalist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx on behalf
of Egyptian Mind
Sent: Mon 22/05/2006 1:45 AM
To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: gen_sib@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: [isalist] Re: SME LAN and ISA
http://www.ISAserver.org
-------------------------------------------------------
1- install the ISA server after the adsl router
and before the switch.
2- put two interface cards in the server
3- attach one interface with the adsl router (
outside ) and the other to the unmanged switch ( inside )
4- assign an IP from your local lan to the
inside interface
5- assign any IP of the range that given from
the ISP ( after the router nat ) to the ouside interface
6- make ur own rules on the ISA server
BASIC SME NETWork SETUP
Internet Cloud
|
|
|
|
ADSL (AZTECH ETHERNET USB) Broadband Router
DHCP
| _____________________________
| |
|
|___outside interface ( 10.11.1.1/24) |
ISA Server
___insdie interface ( 192.168.1.1/24 ) |
| |_____________________________|
|
|______________________
LoCAL AREA NETWORK (Unmanaged Switch)
LAN IP Address 192.168.1.0/24
______________________________
SBS2003-BOX (HP DL3*) LINUX-Box (HP DL3*)
AD OpenSource Helpdesk System
DHCP OpenSource Network Monitoring(nagios,
nmis)
DNS SMS Pager
Intranet AV(clamWin Free AV)
Accounting
MAILs (Pulled from ISP thru pop3 connector)
CRM
WSUS
AV (clamWin Free AV + AVG)
!~` Yesterday is a History` ~!
!~` Tomorrow is a Mystery` ~!
!~` Today is a Gift` ~!
!~` So we call it ...............` ~!
!~` Present .......Simple` ~!
Mob : +966 50 2953591
________________________________
From: Gene Sibbs <gen_sib@xxxxxxxxx>
Reply-To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [isalist] SME LAN and ISA
Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 02:25:59 -0700
(PDT)
Greetings,
I have attached a basic LAN setup
diagram and I would like to pick your brains as far as the security is
concerned.
My objective is that the In/Outbound
traffic must pass thru ISA box
Base on the attached design I feel that
the security is lacking. I have downloaded ISA 2006 BETA
version...and I want to introduce ISA Server as a member of the family
to beef-up security.
How can I make ISA Server 2006 beta
play with this basic design, bearing in mind that I don't have a
static IP address from my ISP. My ADSL is dhcp obtaining the IP
address from ISP.
I want to run ISA2006 on a separate box
completely.
With many thanks!
Gene Sibbs
________________________________
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>BASIC SME NETWork SETUP
>
>Internet Cloud
> |
> |
> |
> |
>ADSL (AZTECH ETHERNET USB) Broadband
Router
> DHCP
> |
> |
> |
>________|______________________
>LoCAL AREA NETWORK (Unmanaged
Switch)
>LAN IP Address 10.11.1.0/24
>
>______________________________
>
>SBS2003-BOX (HP DL3*) LINUX-Box (HP
DL3*)
>
>AD OpenSource Helpdesk System
>DHCP OpenSource Network
Monitoring(nagios, nmis)
>DNS SMS Pager
>Intranet AV(clamWin Free AV)
>Accounting
>MAILs (Pulled from ISP thru pop3
connector)
>CRM
>WSUS
>AV (clamWin Free AV + AVG)
>______________________________
>
>Security is an issue here...
>
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