[ibis-macro] Re: I would like to un-table BIRD 154, and request that there be a vote on BIRD 154 at the next Open Forum meeting.
- From: "Walter Katz" <wkatz@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "'Bob Ross'" <bob@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 14:13:28 -0400 (EDT)
Bob,
(My_Parameter
(List 1 2 3)
(Labels "a" "b" "c")
In my example (I changes the name of the parameter to My_Parameter to
avoid confusion), My_Parameter is a List parameter (i.e. it is a parameter
whose format is List - as opposed to Corner parameter or Value parameter
or Range parameter, or String parameter, . I think "List parameter" is a
clear definition, but if you want it to say a Parameter that has Format
List, I could make that change - but really?
It is your opinion that BIRD 154 needs more work before it is approved.
You are but one vote.
Walter
From: Bob Ross [mailto:bob@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 2:04 PM
To: 'Walter Katz'
Cc: 'IBIS-ATM'
Subject: RE: [ibis-macro] I would like to un-table BIRD 154, and request
that there be a vote on BIRD 154 at the next Open Forum meeting.
Walter:
BIRD154 states "Labels is an optional Leaf within List parameters .".
Yes, Labels can be a Leaf of the Parameter. So are {Format}
<data_format>,
Type, Default, Usage, and Description. If Labels is added then Labels
needs to be added to the list of rules on page 175 and documented
that it requires {Format} List. However, using an existing
word in two different manners is confusing, so I suggest a name
change.
You are correct that others need to decide if they really want/need
this feature. If so, then BIRD154 needs more work before its approval.
Bob
From: Walter Katz [mailto:wkatz@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 10:34 AM
To: 'Bob Ross'
Cc: 'IBIS-ATM'
Subject: RE: [ibis-macro] I would like to un-table BIRD 154, and request
that there be a vote on BIRD 154 at the next Open Forum meeting.
Bob,
You need to draw the picture correctly:
(Parameter
(List 1 2 3)
(Labels "a" "b" "c")
Both node List and node Labels are Leaves of the node Parameter
There are many users that very much want and appreciate the fact that
there is a standard way of naming entries in a List parameter. I think it
would be useful that there be a standard way of doing this. SiSoft has
non-standard ways of doing this and would like to standardize it for the
benefit of all EDA vendors, IC Vendors and Users. If IBIS chooses not to
define such a standard so be it, but this is not being responsive to the
user community.
Walter
From: Bob Ross [mailto:bob@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 1:07 PM
To: wkatz@xxxxxxxxxx
Cc: 'IBIS-ATM'
Subject: RE: [ibis-macro] I would like to un-table BIRD 154, and request
that there be a vote on BIRD 154 at the next Open Forum meeting.
All:
I have concerns about BIRD154 as written. While we can vote on it,
I do not recall it being fully discussed at the ATM meeting. BIRD154
is not ready for approval for a number of reasons.
1. Labels, as documented, is not a Leaf, but a co-dependent Format
word with List. This is totally inconsistent with the usage of Labels
for Table.
If it were a Leaf, then the format would be
(List (Labels "a" "b" "c") 1 2 3),
not
(List 1 2 3) (Labels "a" "b" "c")
So the format needs to be changed or the word Labels needs
to be changed to something like (List_Labels)
2. The added rules about the content of Labels are inconsistent
with the rules for Labels under Table (a point of confusion):
Labels, as documented, places extra burden on the parser
to (a) check for unique List entries and unique Labels for all
Types (Float, String, Boolean), (b) if List entries are the same
then the Labels must be the same. I can think of exceptions (b).
Furthermore not allowing a Null Label "" is inconsistent with the
the rule in Table. Also, the handling of Default is not mentioned
(illegal for Table, but legal for List)
3. The bottom line is that while Labels in Lists might be handy in
a few tools, Labels in Lists is an optional, but not necessary
feature that will cause extra documentation and parser
work for little general benefit. Since Labels are optional, all
tools must still be able to work without Labels. Also the BIRD154
needs more work before its approved.
Bob
From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Walter Katz
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 5:42 PM
To: Michael Mirmak
Cc: IBIS-ATM
Subject: [ibis-macro] I would like to un-table BIRD 154, and request that
there be a vote on BIRD 154 at the next Open Forum meeting.
MM,
I would like to un-table BIRD 154, and request that there be a vote on
BIRD 154 at the next Open Forum meeting. I would very much like this in
IBIS 6.0. It allows the Leaf (Labels in (List parameters, thus assigning
intelligent text to coded values in list parameters. It is simple used for
"Tool Tips" or equivalent information to the user about the various value
of List parameters. It is optional and has no effect on flows. It in fact
worked with the IBIS 5.0 parser. The IBIS 5.1 parser complains about this.
So the only effect on IBIS 6.0 would be to relax the rule that is
currently being enforced.
Walter
Walter Katz
wkatz@xxxxxxxxxx
Phone 303.449-2308
Mobile 303.335-6156
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