[geocentrism] penance
- From: "philip madsen" <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "geocentrism list" <geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 11:32:52 +1000
You are going to be sorry you asked that Jack.
But I do not NEED to do penance. I believe in reparation.. If I steal
something, how could I be truely forgiven if I do not return what was stolen?
If I consume what I stole, or the person to whom I owed it was not available,
how then can I make restitution? Then again is it all about goods? I could
steal (defame) your good name..or Gods.
Jesus told us how to Pray. We must ask, "forgive us our trespasses...."
Why would he ask us to do that if He has already forgiven us and made our
restitution for us?
Why does He insist we must "take up our Cross and follow him? " If His was
sufficient.
Why does he ask us to give up our lives for others as He has done.?
12 This is my commandment, that you love one another, as I have loved you. 13
Greater love than this no man hath, that a man lay down his life for his
friends. 14 You are my friends, if you do the things that I command you.
I think that is a start in giving some reason for penance as a part of
repentance.
repentant adjective FORMAL
feeling sorry for something that you have done.
Should not this "feeling" be confirmed in action? Restitution or reparation of
some sort, when we offend against our neighbour? Thats what penance is.
Sorrow as a "feeling" without action has little value.
With a little poetic licence I shew the principle here
18 But some man will say: Thou hast faith,(sorrow) and I have works. Shew me
thy faith ( sorrow) without works; and I will shew thee, by works, my faith
(sorrow) . 19 Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils
also believe and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith
(sorrow) without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by
works, offering up Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou that faith did
cooperate with his works and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the
scripture was fulfilled, saying: Abraham believed God, and it was reputed to
him to justice, and he was called the friend of God. 24 Do you see that by
works a man is justified, and not by faith only?
And He said: Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive them who trespass
against us...
We expect restitution from our debtors, one way or another as compensation. A
"feeling" spoken as "I'm sorry" cannot be assessed as in good faith without
some action or demonstration .
Why should God be intitled to any less when our offence is against Him?
34 And his lord being angry, delivered him to the torturers until he paid all
the debt. 35 So also shall my heavenly Father do to you, if you forgive not
every one his brother from your hearts.
So it is obvious to me, as the heart cannot be ascertained as to its perfect
contrition, a debt must still be paid....and to God, it will be in torture and
suffering.
Philip.
Of course that last points to Purgatory...There is an excellent proof for that
.. but not yet..
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Lewis
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 8:31 AM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: depression
Dear Phil,
Why do you feel you need to do a 'penance'? There isn't anything you can
personally do to assuage your sins. That's why Jesus went to the cross, he did
it for us. Repent yes but penance is not necessary.
Jack
----- Original Message -----
From: philip madsen
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 9:13 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] depression
"suffer to some extent from depression"
Depression is an imaginary desease some men catch from women.. For a cure
it is only necessary for a man to imagine he has not got it, and have another
beer.
The only occasion I get depressed is when I have sinned against God. And a
simple honest apology with some prayers for penance quickly fixes that..
Philip.
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