[geocentrism] Re: expelled to Hell
- From: "philip madsen" <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 09:49:23 +1000
So if this description of hell is wrong what does that make Jesus?
Jack
Jack people who want to abolish Hell usually have a vested interest in doing
so.
And in support of my earlier account, notice that in the story of Lazarus the
man is capable of coherency and mental activity, which would not be possible in
any normal human under such extreme suffering. What is puzzeling to me is that
the rich man is capable of compassion for his brother that he be warned.
However I believe Hell is of many mansions downwards as heaven is upwards.
Often the interpretations also use Hell in different contexts for different
places. This can lead to many confusing errors.
Let me state that in Catholic theology Hell is dogma. But the nature of Hell
itself is open to presumption.. In other words, a mystery.
From this extensive article http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07207a.htm I take
these short samples of a very interesting and intense article of the various
opinions..
"Hell (infernus) in theological usage is a place of punishment after death.
Theologians distinguish four meanings of the term hell:
a.. hell in the strict sense, or the place of punishment for the damned, be
they demons or men;
b.. the limbo of infants (limbus parvulorum), where those who die in original
sin alone, and without personal mortal sin, are confined and undergo some kind
of punishment;
c.. the limbo of the Fathers (limbus patrum), in which the souls of the just
who died before Christ awaited their admission to heaven; for in the meantime
heaven was closed against them in punishment for the sin of Adam;
d.. purgatory, where the just, who die in venial sin or who still owe a debt
of temporal punishment for sin, are cleansed by suffering before their
admission to heaven."
The present article treats only of hell in the strict sense of the term.
"The Latin infernus (inferum, inferi), the Greek Hades, and the Hebrew sheol
correspond to the word hell. Infernus is derived from the root in; hence it
designates hell as a place within and below the earth. Haides, formed from the
root fid, to see, and a privative, denotes an invisible, hidden, and dark
place; thus it is similar to the term hell. The derivation of sheol is
doubtful. It is generally supposed to come from the Hebrew root meaning, "to be
sunk in, to be hollow"; accordingly it denotes a cave or a place under the
earth. In the Old Testament (Septuagint hades; Vulgate infernus) sheol is used
quite in general to designate the kingdom of the dead, of the good (Genesis
37:35) as well as of the bad (Numbers 16:30); it means hell in the strict sense
of the term, as well as the limbo of the Fathers................"
"The poena sensus, or pain of sense, consists in the torment of fire so
frequently mentioned in the Holy Bible. According to the greater number of
theologians the term fire denotes a material fire, and so a real fire. We hold
to this teaching as absolutely true and correct. However, we must not forget
two things: from Catharinus (d. 1553) to our times there have never been
wanting theologians who interpret the Scriptural term fire metaphorically, as
denoting an incorporeal fire; and secondly, thus far the Church has not
censured their opinion. Some few of the Fathers also thought of a metaphorical
explanation. Nevertheless, Scripture and tradition speak again and again of the
fire of hell, and there is no sufficient reason for taking the term as a mere
metaphor. It is urged: How can a material fire torment demons, or human souls
before the resurrection of the body? But, if our soul is so joined to the body
as to be keenly sensitive to the pain of fire, why should the omnipotent God be
unable to bind even pure spirits to some material substance in such a manner
that they suffer a torment more or less similar to the pain of fire which the
soul can feel on earth? The reply indicates, as far as possible, how we may
form an idea of the pain of fire which the demons suffer. "'
As I said, many opinions... There is much leeway of choice.
Philip.
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