[geocentrism] Re: Reasoning from Scripture
- From: "Philip" <joyphil@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 17:28:48 +1000
Never thought any different Allen.
Phil.
----- Original Message -----
From: Allen Daves
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 11:40 AM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Reasoning from Scripture
I still count you, Carl, and Neville as knowledgeable and valuable friends.
YOU TOO PHILIP !!!!!!!
Allen
Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Dear All,
I hope this does not end our efforts and attempts to develop understanding
TOGETHER. We disagree on this issue for sure. However, I do/have not judged or
condemned anyone or anyone's work here. I salute Carl's efforts in trying to
develop a greater understanding of how days may have been counted in the past I
believe it is significant. I believe however, our ability to make certain
conclusions about the Gregorian calendar or certain other details are limited
by scripture or rather the lack thereof. My original point was that there is no
scriptural justification for condemning the Gregorian Calendar. Carl is
absolutely correct when he stated that the scripture dose not mention the
"Gregorian Calendar", but neither does it mention a "Biblical calendar" either
, nor even in the sence that one is MORE biblical than the other. Ok. maybe we
disagree about that, that is where things took off. But the underlining
arguments we put forward to one another were dealing specifically with
the
ordination of Governments and more broadly how to rightly divide (or Handle
some translations) the word of God. How do we know for certain that our
methodology is the correct methodology? I believe it is significant to all of
us because we all don't agree even those who disagree with me don't all agree.
I Find the WHY fascinating. Someone here stated that there must be a right way,
and we all seem to agree on that I think. So why is it so hard for me, you any
of us to agree on the HOW to know that? Where is the answer to this question
found? "Interpretation" verse "not thinking beyond what is written". I belive
that I clearly demostrated that the "correct way", even the how or the way
itself, is found in the scriptures, not in man or the reasoning of man. We
cannot trust ourselves to interpretation, Scripture will do the interpreting if
we let it. This IS reasoning from the scriptures...
If I may be so bold to address Robert's comments. Robert you are absolutely
right. It is by faith, but not faith in my understanding or my ability at
exegesis , but the faith in God despite my understanding and my feeble ability
to know anything other than what God has GIVEN me. God requires faith not
exegesis ability. Of course to the logistician it makes no sense, Scripture
tells us that. . Their problem is not one of logic or exegesis it is simply one
of FAITH in the word of God only .....1Corinthians 1:17....not with wisdom of
words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect..... 19. For it is
written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and bring to nothing the
understanding of the prudent.'' 20. Where is the wise? Where is the scribe?
Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this
world? 21. For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not
know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message pre
ached to
save those who believe. 22. For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after
wisdom. God does not speak of exegesis, I know what we mean when we use these
words but that is the whole point we use terms God does not use and ideas that
God does not give and we use them to develop understanding of God's word? Doses
not God know what He means and what it sounds like to us when he makes a
statement? He commands faith in him not external methods and information to be
used in understanding his word. As for mysteries....
1 Corinthians 2: 7. But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden
wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory, ..10. But God has
revealed them to us through His Spirit 12. Now we have received, not the spirit
of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things
that have been freely given to us by God. .... 14. But the natural man does not
receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; NOR
CAN HE KNOW THEM, because they are SPERITUALLY DISCERNED. John 6:63...... The
words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
If the logistician can't use his REASONING and his LOGIC to comprehend this
scripture, does that not make my point? It is not found in reasoning of man but
only in faith in God and in His word. Also Robert I wanted to send you
something I sent Carl and Neville but I lost you email until you replied this
time. I know we do not agree on many things. I still count you, Carl, and
Neville as knowledgeable and valuable friends. Some people I'm sure read our
postings and must think we are arch enemies. However, I try to address my
arguments against an argument not an individual. I apologize if any of my
comments have given anyone that idea.
GOD BLESS,
Allen
"Dr. Neville Jones" wrote:Dear All,
I know someone who has spent years on BadAstronomy.com, trying to put the
geocentric case to a bunch of idiots. Although I admire his efforts, I have
told him in the past that he is wasting his time.
I have to admit that I feel I am wasting my time now with this forum. I am
not saying that anyone on it is an idiot, but the debate with Allen Daves over
his refusal to see reason, if you will pardon the pun, has highlighted just how
difficult it is for someone to keep an open mind and to admit when their
position has surely been shown to be wrong.
If we cannot reason together, based upon God's word, then what is the point
of being on this forum at all? I have to ask this of Allen, whose work
otherwise I admire, but I suppose it applies to all of us.
We achieved a fine thing when we reasoned from the Scriptures that the World
does not rotate, but it seems that there is a great reluctance to go any
further. If this is the case, then I will not waste my time anymore. It would
be far more beneficial for me to get back to research on geocentrism.
Neville.
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