Hi Neville, Here's the other side...or one other side... Good morning Carl, David has yet to produce the historical references that he refers to. And even if he did, I would be skeptical for the following reasons. In no particular order... 1. Babylon observed the moon from crescent to crescent (after whatever it was that Velikovsky is writing about). 2. Egypt (I am told) observed the moon from cresent to crescent (ditto regarding Velikovsky). [Note: I believe YHWH permitted or caused this cosmic calmamity to confuse the calendars no different than He confused the languages at the tower Babal. If everyone was scrambling to make their calendars work after this calamity and these pagan nations concluded that their months would begin with the visible crescent, that is fine with me. I believe YHWH foreknew that Israel alone would continue to keep His calendar to the best of their ability [probably the exact reason for this calamity] and/or instructed through the prophets if they got it wrong. YHWH led Israel OUT of Babylon and Egypt. 3. David and Jonathan, in II Samuel 20, could not have made their "informed" statement if Israel was using a visible crescent. They did not know, they had not seen it yet. 4. In order to force a visible crescent upon Scipture, pro-crescent folks have only but to say that David and Jonathan were at the tail end of a 3.5 dark period (presuming that the moon can be dark for 1.5 to 3.5 days--which I have NEVER seen in practice) meaning that the new moon HAD to be the next day. This conclusion suffers for want of evidence. I sincerely believe that YHWH does not communicate with us using extremes. Therefore I believe David and Jonathan could have made this statememt any and every month. Which is indeed the case if a nation/person counts new moon from the day after conjunction. 5. Counting from the visible crescent is walking by sight, not by faith. 6. Considering their many forays into paganism, I have no doubt that Israel observed the crescent moon and that this evidence made it into the historical record, discounting the fact that they were not instructed to calculate their calendar in this manner. 7. The historical record is not YHWH's inspired Word. Regardless of what the historical record says, if it is contrary to the evidence in Scripture, it is suspect. It may be an actual historical fact, but that does not make it the Truth. 8. And this is probably the most compelling--counting from the visible crescent will cause one to observe the Sabbaths 1-2 (to 3.5?) days late for the phases of the moon in most months. The historical record does say, in truth, that Israel observed the Sabbath by the moons phases, something they could not do very well if counting from a visible crescent. While David may be an excellent student and a sincere man, if he (or anyone) make the historical evidence their proof texts, their conclusions are approximately worth the paper they are written on. YHWH make His face shine upon you Carl. Be blessed, Troy