[geocentrism] Re: Bible anomolies
- From: allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
- To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 13:33:37 -0700 (PDT)
Nevil: Your comments are founded upon your assumption that the Bible does
indeed contain truth.
I have a totally realistic explanation to all this division, which is based
upon my assumption/deduction that the Bible is not 100% truth.
You state the same thing yourself in this posting, so we are in agreement.
Allen: Think the sublties of what i said may have been missed.......
I think if you will look carefully at my comments i do not make the assumption
that the bible was "the truth"....I only used it as an example since it is and
was the focus of the issues under consideration......("what is truth" &
interpretations and such).......if i were Muslim my example would have still
been valid... the principle would be the same ..
1.I was addressing the logic used to deduce any "truth" (my example bible) as
true are not and can not be ascertained on the fact that there is so many
divisions....that was the primary point
further, was making that point to show that simply not understanding the bible
in whole or in part is not a logically valid reason for discounting some and
accepting some of it......i was pointing out that very approach is the reason
for the 28000 different interpretations..... In fact if you and everyone else
accepted all ignored none logically the divergence between all our various
opinions should fade to insignificance, if truth is intrinsic to the word
itself and not based in our various understandings and interpretations.......I
was only drawing attention to the fact that even with all the various division
and interpretations that is not a valid reason for engaging in selective verse
picking while ignoring others.....it is a case instead for taking the scripture
in whole not in part.....why? ...cause the fact that there are 28000 different
divisions is only made possible by that very approach..as you said "taking
selective verses while ignoring
others ...and that is exactly what you do in your assumption....
2. So if the fact that there are 28000 different versions bothers you in so far
as it relates to what is and is not truth ..then your own approach to
"scripture" would contribute to the very chaos you describe as the reason for
taking your own approach to it......which in turn adds to the 28000 different
interpretations....your methodology contributes in creating the very
environment you are protesting.
The point you make about so many different variations is independent of truth
itself...The logical appraoch is to take all or none......thus literal
interpritaions as mentioned........so many different variations cannot be
logically invoked to justify division in any religion to include orthodox
Christianity
----- Original Message ----
From: Neville Jones <njones@xxxxxxxxx>
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, October 1, 2007 11:53:30 AM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Bible anomolies
Allen,
Your comments are founded upon your assumption that the Bible does indeed
contain truth.
I have a totally realistic explanation to all this division, which is based
upon my assumption/deduction that the Bible is not 100% truth.
You state the same thing yourself in this posting, so we are in agreement.
Neville
www.GeocentricUniverse.com
-----Original Message-----
From: allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 17:57:35 -0700 (PDT)
These points you raise actually reinforces Jacks case for literal
interpretations & accountability for such……..why/ how?……
Nevile: There are something of the order of 28,000+
sects/schisms/divisions/..., call them what you will, under the Christian
banner. Are not all of these interpreting the Bible in their own way?
Emphasizing certain verses and ignoring others? To suit the ends of the
"church" to which they "belong"?
What about non-Christians? They reject the Bible either in whole, or at least
in large parts. Are they all off to "hell," in your opinion?
.......Emphasizing certain verses and ignoring others? .Yes, but that is not a
problem who’s point of origin stems intrisicaly from "Christianity" or "the
Church" "nor does it stem from some intrinsic problem with "THE TRUTH" itself.
The problem is intrinsic to men and the flaws of men not God’s Word or Even
God’s Church...willfully or in ignorance……….. but the problem is not in the
literal meanings nor does the fact there are so may schisms have anything to do
with affecting what is and what is not the literal truth …to argue that those
facts imply or has some significance to the meaning of the truth itself only
has meaning in terms of men's perceptions of the truth or men’s'
interpretations.............The point you raise only has meaning if men's
perceptions are what determines truth.... if men’s perceptions do not determine
truth then the fact there are so many interpretations does not nor would it
affect what is truth whether it be
bible, Koran, or rig veda, modern cosmology/ evolution…the fact that there are
so many "bibles" in the world does not nor would it affect which one is "the
word" of God/truth nor would that fact affect what God Chooses to do with those
who don’t accept :"the truth" or if you will just go out of existence all
together…the issue is why you believe what you believe not that 1 there is such
a thing as absolute truth knowable or unknowable 2. How you arrive at what ever
you consider the truth to be ..however the fact that many people believe many
different things only makes a a statement about the condition of men not "the
truth"
…........for the sake of simplicity assume there is such a thing as "the word
of God" in written form...the fact that there are 28000 different
interpretations and schisms reflects on men not God not the Truth .....I think
the fundamental issue is if you accept bible as "the word of God" then there is
no other way to take scripture except to
1. take all of it not emphasizing certain verses and ignoring others, but
taking all....if it is possible to take some and ignore others, other then
men's personal flaws, then why is it not possible to take all and ignore none?
2. if the meaning is not literal then how does one know what the author's truth
is unless one first knows what the truth is..but that is the logical conundrum,
for if the truth of the meaning is only known external of the "word of God"
then the word of God has no intrinsic truth.......In fact this whole issue
highlights the fact that it is this very philosophy (truth understood external
of God's word to interpret God's word) that enables men to develop 28000
different interpretations in the first place..... Demorgan makes this point as
well in his book Bugget of Parodoxes......
Without regard for how people feel about "God" or "truth if we are to assume
such a thing and call it the bible and if Jesus is the word in the flesh, then
feelings are irrelevant, men’s interpretations are irrelevant for if the truth
is intrinsic in Gods word then the truth is not dependent or determined by my
or anyone’s interpretations.... interpretations may make us feel good but they
would not affect or determine what God's truth is....Thus, the fact there would
be or are so many different interpretations of the truth says nothing about
truth itself............ rather it makes a undeniable statement about the
condition of men. If Christ was the word in flesh, i believe he was, He claimed
that he was the only way the only door and the only path to salvation. If he is
the only path or door and there is no other name under heaven whereby men can
be saved then salvation is nowhere else and that would be a fact external of
our feelings on that
matter....and if our feelings on the matter tell us or persuade us to other
interpretations then the word of God is not absolute out feelings about the
word of God would be absolute.....
This philosophical problem that keeps getting raised from time to time only
exist in a world view where the literal meanings of the word of God are not
taken literally, where the truth or God is arbitrated by men or men’s feelings/
understanding/knowledge/ abilities ect and even the justifications for such an
approach are based on that same
philosophical circular conundrum.
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