[GeoStL] Re: Etiquette, Racist Hate Message, and Glenn's Management of the list
- From: "Jim Bensman" <jbensman1@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <geocaching@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 11:21:35 -0500
-
My last message went through unimpeded, so I am hopeful this one can get
through without being secretly censored.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: geocaching-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:geocaching-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Dan Eubanks
> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 9:08 AM
> To: geocaching@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [GeoStL] Re: Etiquette
>
>
> -
>
> What have we come to when "God Bless America" is controversial?
>
> Dan
Bernie's, "NCR--Statement well said!" was racists hate speech under the
banner of God and country. It was the racist hate message that was the
problem. I have friends who are of native American descent who value and
honor their heritage and culture. His message was reminiscent of the
racists in the 60s who were suggesting the descendants of slaves who were
not happy with the way the KKK was treating them should go back to Africa.
I found it very offensive for Bernie and Reeves to be suggesting native
Americans who value their heritage and culture (including my friends) and
new citizens should go to another country. It is particularly offensive and
racist to be saying this to native Americans. After all this land was
stolen from them and their ancestors were slaughter and murdered by
Christians in the name of God. What's worse all of their heritage and
sacred sites are in this country.
I completely agree with the sentiment that this list should be about
geocaching and these kinds of things should not be on this list. Racists
hate speech is what fueled Hitler and the KKK. I cannot and will not be
quite when people spew racist hate speech-no matter how subtle or under the
banner of God and the flag. People have a moral obligation to stand up to
these kind of people.
The netiquette guidelines Glen posted stated:
"If a fellow member is not following these guidelines, is not employing
proper netiquette, or has otherwise posted something you find offensive or
in bad taste, etc., please do not post complaints to the newsgroup or send
complaints to the member. Please address any complaints or concerns to the
administrator as described below."
I complained to Glenn about the offensive and racist nature of the message
and his response to me was, "Not interested, take it to another list, or off
list to discuss it...."
Additionally, it appears while Glenn sent a message to the list that stated:
> Want to than everyone for the maturity in recognizing what topics
> are considered "off List" here. I really havent seen the
> continued discussions of things that have no place on this list
> like in the past.
>
> I guess y'all are using your common sense and realized that
> generally, politics, religion, some brands of batteries are just
> to volitile to discuss on a geocaching list and kept the nonsence
> down to a tollerable three notes. Good work for taking such
> things to private email. I guess most folks have a seperate list
> for politics and the like..
he was secretly censoring my response to the racist messages. I sent a
message in response to Glenn's message joking message about Reeves agreeing
with the racist hate speech. It has never come through. The next morning I
sent a message in response to Reeves. It has never come through. After
Glenn sent his test message in the morning, I emailed him my messages were
not going through. I sent my Vista rubber strip message and it did not go
through. I emailed Glenn again. The vista message went through hours
latter minutes after he sent me his response to my complaint abut the
offensive and racist nature of Bernie's message. So I suspect he was
secretly blocking my messages. So I sent him a message yesterday asking if
he was blocking my message he has not answered. So I do not know for sure
if he had secretly changed my settings to allow him to censor what I say or
if this was just some strange coiendence.
Glenn, if you were not secretly censoring my messages, you should have
responded to my multiple messages asking you about it.
If you were secretly censoring my messages, I think you were way out of
line. If you are doing something like this, I feel you should tell the list
and the person. A list manager should not be able to secretly censor
people. There should also be some kind of appeals process to SLAGA. I
would also point out in this instance you were involved as you posted a wise
crack about one of the racist messages. So that makes secretly censoring
people in such an instance even worse.
Also, if you were in fact secretly censoring my messages, your timing was
completely inappropriate. A racists hate message went through, someone said
how outstanding it was, you made a wise crack, I responded to the racist
message, Reeves made another BS response, then I was blocked from
responding. As I told you in my compliant about the message, instead of
responding with a wise crack, you should have respond with this kind of
stuff has no place on this list.
I think SLAGA should practice tolerance for all people. I will not be a
part of any group that tolerates racist hate speech.
FYI, here are the key parts of Bernie's message:
There are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and
apparently some native Americans, need to understand. * * * This idea of
America being a multi-cultural community has served only to dilute our
sovereignty and our national identity. As Americans, we have our own
culture, our own society, our own language, and our own lifestyle. * * * I
highly encourage you take advantage of one other great American freedom:
THE RIGHT TO LEAVE!
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