I have attempted caches that have given me grief and left me with a bitter taste after completing or failing to complete them. I also wondered about the appropriateness of these two caches. I simply pushed the rock aside to extract the cache and I did no harm whatsoever to the surrounding environment. I read your harrowing story and I do understand your concerns, but taking it upon yourself to personally police the legalities is a bit much. I don't care for the fact that you admittedly trespassed on private land to attempt this cache..that make us ALL look bad. But, you don't hear me calling for discipline for any of your legal / illegal actions. Perhaps we should all just calm down and try to understand our mistakes, stop pointing fingers, and come together as a community. Some of these emails appear to be hastily written in anger from BOTH sides. Let us strive to educate the proper process, and admit that perhaps we acted too quickly in what we believed to be the correct manner. Who was complaining how quiet the message list was a week or so ago? I_Wear_Square_Pants Stace King --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Make Yahoo! your home page