Re: [foxboro] AP and AW roles - historical and current
- From: "tjvandew@xxxxxxxxx" <tjvandew@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 07:11:35 -1000
Jack,
You said:
"The only reason I know of to buy a P91 (Win 2003 Server) is to provide Remote
Displays to PCs"
Previously I thought that was true but the P91's do come with dual power
supplies that can be fed from separate sources, and eight SCSI slots for easily
replaceable hard drives that can be used in a RAID configuration that will let
you tolerate a hard drive failure. They also recognize and display hardware
warnings/errors from the front panel LCD screen. IMHO, if you need a very
robust machine for critical apps it is a better choice than a P92 running XP.
The P91's are huge and we call them the "Beasts". The P90 Blades would
be an improvement over the P91's because they could be more easily installed
and maintained in a central rack and could all be accessed and maintained
remotely or through a local KVM switch and mouse, keyboard, monitor, at the
rack location.
Regards,
Tom VandeWater
Control Conversions, Inc
Kapolei, HI
Jack.Easley@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> A little further clarification:
>
> P92 - XP can do it all, except Remote Display Managers. Many people use
> them as AWs instead of P91s. The only reason I know of to buy a P91 (Win
> 2003 Server) is to provide Remote Displays to PCs.
>
> You are right in that the CPs do not need the AWs during normal
> operations.
> As long as the CPs do not reboot, they don't care. Downtime of several
> hours on Unix Box AWs was common for tape backups. I guess one
> additional reason to use P91s instead of P92s could be that only P91s
> have redundant power sources which can be supplied from 2 different AC
> sources, if you're into blue-moon redundancy.
>
> You are correct in that APs are no longer offered.
>
> Currently Foxboro appears to be migrating from P91s (Desktop Server) to
> P90s (Rack Mount Server). Same animal, but newer and faster.
>
> Jack Easley
> Sr. I&C Technician
> Luminant Power, Martin Lake Plant
> Phone 903.836.6241
> jack.easley@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of McLaughlin, Sean
> Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 2:02 PM
> To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [foxboro] AP and AW roles - historical and current
>
> Jack,
>
> Thanks for the answers below. To check that I understand correctly, this
> is my interpretation of the current P91/P92 offerings that you
> mentioned:
>
> P91 - Server 2003:
> Comes with AW (= AP + WP) software capabilities, can host CP's and
> provide HMI's.
>
> P92 - XP:
> Comes with WP software capabilities, can provide HMI's etc. Lately comes
> with full AW capabilities.
>
> I am assuming that a pure "AP only" product (no ability to provide
> HMI's) is not currently offered in the latest Windows products -- but
> the current WP's have both an AP and an AW letterbug.
>
> As far as the role of AW's go during CP bootup, the #1 point that I am
> taking away is from the viewpoint of single failures or common-mode
> failures. Even with only one ("non-redundant") AW, I don't see reason to
> postulate that a failure of this AW would cause a loss of control
> capabilities in any likely event, so long as the CP's themselves are
> powered from redundant power (and therefore aren't likely to reboot
> unless done by intention). Is there any need for periodic communication
> between a CP and AW (or some other caveat) which could cause problems in
> a CP if an AW went down? We generally recommend the most conservative
> approach with redundancy wherever it is available, so any suggestions
> are welcome.
>
> Thanks again, and also to Tim Lowell for your private response.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Sean McLaughlin
> Controls Engineer I
> Zachry Nuclear Engineering
> (Formerly Proto-Power Corporation)
> 860-405-3076
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Jack.Easley@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 1:09 PM
> To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [foxboro] AP and AW roles - historical and current
>
> Here's a quick answer to most of your questions.
>
> AP (old) Applications Processor Foxboro's Server, no HMI (Wyse
> Term.)
> WP Workstation Processor HMI for displays, alarms, some
> configs.
> AW (new) Application Workstation Combination of both above
> WP Name of AW mainly used as alarm destination, probably
> more.
>
> Foxboro has been installing all Windows WPs as AWs for the last few
> versions (no extra charge), even if no historians or other server
> functions run on it. Works for me as it simplifies the install process,
> even though we still call them WPs because they are just used as HMIs.
>
> The AP/AW/WP nomenclature is still valid, although on Windows MESH you
> hear P91 used for AW and P92 used for WP. P91/P92 is really just
> hardware/OS description. P92s (XP) can be and are often used for either
> WP or AW.
>
> CPs must communicate with the AP/AW when they reboot, with exception of
> self-hosting CPs at latest version 8.4.2. I have heard CP self-hosting
> at this version still has problems and am not implementing it (although
> I had planned to) as it is something we have been looking for a long
> time.
>
> I'm sure others can elaborate on your questions further...
>
> Jack Easley
> Sr. I&C Technician
> Luminant Power, Martin Lake Plant
> Phone 903.836.6241
> jack.easley@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of McLaughlin, Sean
> Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 10:42 AM
> To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [foxboro] AP and AW roles - historical and current
>
> Hi.
>
> This is my first post here. I'll probably be making a few more in the
> next couple weeks, as I'm developing some internal training materials on
> Foxboro equipment for our I&C Engineers. Our company does AE work /
> consulting for modifications / Spec writing for various nuke plants, who
> have various vintages of existing DCS equipment (usually Foxboro). We
> often see 51 series, Solaris workstations, etc. Sometimes we'll elect to
> go forward with small expansions on this legacy of equipment; other
> times we'll upgrade to the latest MESH hardware / software.
>
> I came across the below post (notably older - 2002) from this group,
> while trying to research the roles of AW's / AP's / WP's / etc. in the
> overall architecture. I realized that I don't have a complete grasp of
> the different terminology between AW/AP/WP -- especially the part about
> "the AW's WP name". Is this purely an artifact of the Sun Solaris, with
> one box hosting the applications, and another connected to it to provide
> display / HMI through the X Windowing system? Also: are these terms
> still used in the same meaning on today's latest equipment?
>
> Secondly: Can anyone provide a summary of what network processes take
> place when "hosting" a CP or FBM? If a power interruption occurs and a
> CP / FBM needs to reboot, will it have the config files that it needs in
> non-volatile memory, or is it absolutely essential that the AP/WP be
> online and available in order to reboot? (i.e. Windows can't have
> crashed, etc.)
>
> I haven't been able to find these types of answers in publicly-available
> Invensys documents; I'm in the process of signing up for IPS access. Any
> pointers to literature would be great. Thanks in advance!
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Sean McLaughlin
> Controls Engineer I
> Zachry Nuclear Engineering
> (Formerly Proto-Power Corporation)
> 860-405-3076
>
> Re: [foxboro] AW70 to WP70 via Ethernet
> From: Chris Browder <chris_browder@xxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:chris_browder@xxxxxxxxx> >
> To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 08:38:17 -0800 (PST) I think his problem is more
> fundamental.
>
> First, how did you install WP and AW? What is the AW's logical name
> (letterbug). AW7001? and what is the _AW_'s wp name. AWWP01? (nice to
> put AW in there so you don't get confused)
>
> The AW basically has two components a host (or application processor)
> and a workstation (or workstation processor). The host (AP part) is the
> AW's letterbug. The worstation (WP part) is the AW's secondary
> letterbug.
>
> Then you have a second machine with just the WP part (call the WP).
> It'll have it's own _separate_ letterbug. WP7001?
>
> Then you'll have node on which they are connected. Make sure this is an
> ethernet node (if that's appropriate for you: no dnbi/dnbt's).
>
> What are your AW's letterbugs? What is your WP's letterbug? What is the
> node type?
>
> It's been a year since I've done this so forgive me if some of my
> terminology is off. Feel free to correct me someone.
>
> chris.
>
>
>
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> _______________________________________________________________________
> This mailing list is neither sponsored nor endorsed by Invensys Process
> Systems (formerly The Foxboro Company). Use the info you obtain here at
> your own risks. Read http://www.thecassandraproject.org/disclaimer.html
>
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> to subscribe: mailto:foxboro-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=join
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>
> Confidentiality Notice: This email message, including any attachments,
> contains or may contain confidential information intended only for the
> addressee. If you are not an intended recipient of this message, be
> advised that any reading, dissemination, forwarding, printing, copying
> or other use of this message or its attachments is strictly prohibited. If
> you have received this message in error, please notify the sender
> immediately by reply message and delete this email message and any
> attachments from your system.
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> This mailing list is neither sponsored nor endorsed by Invensys Process
> Systems (formerly The Foxboro Company). Use the info you obtain here at
> your own risks. Read http://www.thecassandraproject.org/disclaimer.html
>
> foxboro mailing list: //www.freelists.org/list/foxboro
> to subscribe: mailto:foxboro-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=join
> to unsubscribe: mailto:foxboro-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=leave
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