Spent the better bart of Thursday in Hate with a bunch of peeps and the retrofit they did to the place was amazing!. As one guy said, "They did a Trading Spaces episode with Hate and Fear". The new art they did for the buildings and general atmosphere is reminiscent of 19th centrury London. No longer do you port in in the middle of a sh*t storm of nasty adds either. As long as you dont get too close to the walls (as usual) you'll be okay. The map has changed also. You may as well throw the old one away and unfortunatly, LoY mapping doesnt work here either (grab pen and paper). The npc models are still old world and not much has changed in their make up but I think they did something to the exp. In raid with 12 people (41-62) I ended up getting a full yellow of exp in 5 hours of chain pulling. 2 Enchanters kept the adds to more than managable levels (Sylphan being the second and by far one of the most economical, reliable enchanters I've had the privilege of working with). In a nut shel, if pulled properly with a good tank and equally good healer, the enterance and Yard Trash cuold probably yeild a single, tight group some pretty good exp for a day. Expect death though, as the Liches are still a royal pain in the arse and as usual in hate....DONT use AoE spells. You wont have time for evac or port-out. Oh, last thing, the port stones now cost just over 50p each (52p 4g 9s 9c) which is nearly half what I rem the cost being and Sinistraad has a few extras on hand in his bank. See ya in pixels Degan