[euralex] SV: Re: AW: Re: [DSNA] RE: End of print dictionaries at Macmillan
- From: Anna Braasch <braasch@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: "stephen.bullon@xxxxxxxxx" <stephen.bullon@xxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 13:55:17 +0100
Dear Colleagues,
Sure, all lexicographers love printed dictionaries (me too!)- there is the
beautiful scent of library, the nice feeling of paper between one's fingers,
the passion of scrolling though articles, and of course the knowledge of
lexicographer's work behind all useful and interesting informtion provided.
Possibly, it is too early to send them off into retirement already; not
everybody has access to electonic devices in their study or work yet. Like
Geoffrey, Carla, Adam and others - also I'll miss new printed dictionaries.
But most people are not lexicographers or lovers of words, for them a
dictionary is just a tool, and as such its value is in the functionality and
effciency of its use. And in this regard, electronic dictionaries are superior
to the printed ones, looking-up is faster, they are easier to use. It is also
much easier to maintain and update them so they easily be kept up-to-date even
10 years after their first publication. Further, when doing writings in a
foreign language, one can first search the information needed in the electronic
dictionary and then put it into the relevant context in the own writing and
finally, check it in on-line texts, or even in an on-line accessible text
corpus, to see whether the construction produced occurs frequently in texts in
the language in question. If not - then, probably, something went wrong...
So yes, Simon, Gilles-Maurice, Stephen and all using electronic dictionaries in
their everyday work and appreciating them for their functional qualities - also
I'm on your side!
I keep my good, old printed dictionaries for my pleasure and use the
electronic ones in my work.
Best regards,
Anna Braasch
Senior researcher
University of Copenhagen
Centre for Language Technology
Njalsgade 140
DK-2300 Copenhagen S, Denmark
TEL +45 3532 9071
braasch@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:braasch@xxxxxxxxx>
http://www.cst.ku.dk
________________________________
Fra: euralex-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [euralex-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] På vegne af
Stephen Bullon [stephen.bullon@xxxxxxxxx]
Sendt: 6. november 2012 11:20
Til: euralex@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Emne: [euralex] Re: AW: Re: [DSNA] RE: End of print dictionaries at Macmillan
I think Simon makes a good point. If there'd never been paper dictionaries
before, we certainly wouldn't invent them now, with all the conventions that
the constraints of paper impose on them. Anyone remember the early grammar
patterns in the Oxford Advanced Learners Dictionary, or LDOCE1? VP18A was just
one of a whole gang of largely unmemorisable codes (which have admittedly
evolved since the first editions, but which don't need to be codified at all in
a digital version). The potential for digital dictionaries is only just now
being tapped, and there's a lot more to come. Like Geoffrey, I like books, and
I'll keep my paper dictionaries, but I don't look in them anywhere near as
often as I used to. And like Simon, I'll enjoy the much greater functionality
available from digital resources.
Stephen Bullon
PS - I ought to declare an interest, as Publisher for Macmillan Dictionaries
On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 10:00 AM, Simon Krek
<kreks@xxxxxxxx<mailto:kreks@xxxxxxxx>> wrote:
I wonder if anybody thought about similar resources that were conceived in the
internet era – can you imagine for instance a printed Wikipedia with all the
nice links from one article to another, simply impossible to follow. This is
also the experience that future generations will never have. And similar to
Wikipedia, future dictionaries will be massively interlinked– words will not be
isolated at all, I expect them to be a huge sensibly organized browsable
family, not to mention user-friendly vizualisations. It's a different
experience – in the sense that not many of us experience everyday ride with a
horse to the nearest barber.
Simon Krek
From: euralex-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:euralex-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:euralex-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:euralex-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>] On
Behalf Of Worsch, Wolfgang
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 10:24 AM
To: williams@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:williams@xxxxxxxxxxx>;
euralex@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:euralex@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [euralex] AW: Re: [DSNA] RE: End of print dictionaries at Macmillan
I totally agree with Geoffrey – to me Macmillan’s decision is a sad one. If it
is the start of an overall trend future generations of (dictionary) users will
not have the enriching opportunity to “leaf through” a dictionary. Instead they
will “key in and enter” isolated words. Reference skills will be reduced to
using a keyboard or touch-screen.
Wolfgang Worsch
Von: euralex-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:euralex-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:euralex-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] Im Auftrag von WILLIAMS Geoffrey
Gesendet: Dienstag, 6. November 2012 09:52
An: euralex@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:euralex@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Betreff: [euralex] Re: [DSNA] RE: End of print dictionaries at Macmillan
It is indeed a sad day for us page turners who also like comparing editions. In
powercuts, paper is so useful. The dictionary is also an object of value, not
just a support for words. In teaching, paper editions are a wonderful tool
against cheating in exams, and anyway we cannot guarantee that all students
have access to electronic tools, and certainly not internet outside the uni.
But I suppose I am old and should be put on a bonfire along with my precious
books.
Geoffrey
Le 06/11/2012 08:52, KILGARRIFF Matthew (RIC-CH) a écrit :
A new dark age beckons.
From: adam.kilgarriff@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:adam.kilgarriff@xxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:adam.kilgarriff@xxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Adam Kilgarriff
Sent: 06 November 2012 08:17
To: Lexicophile@xxxxxxx<mailto:Lexicophile@xxxxxxx>
Cc: euralex@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:euralex@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
DSNA@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:DSNA@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
lexicographylist@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:lexicographylist@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
asialex@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:asialex@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
afrilex@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:afrilex@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
lexicografie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:lexicografie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
ishll@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:ishll@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Kilgarriff Raymond;
KILGARRIFF Matthew (RIC-CH); KILGARRIFF PATRICK
Subject: Re: [euralex] Re: [DSNA] RE: End of print dictionaries at Macmillan
> What a sad day!
Not at all! A day of liberation for the straitjacket of print!
Adam
On 5 November 2012 14:48, <Lexicophile@xxxxxxx<mailto:Lexicophile@xxxxxxx>>
wrote:
What a sad day! When looking up anything in a print dictionary, you generally
stumble across all sorts of delightful material you never would have known to
look for. With an electronic dictionary, generally speaking, what you search
is what you get, and nothing beyond.
Dan Pratt
In a message dated 11/5/2012 6:00:16 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
gillesmaurice.deschryver@xxxxxxxx<mailto:gillesmaurice.deschryver@xxxxxxxx>
writes:
Dear Friends and Colleagues,
This is Breaking News indeed!
"Macmillan Dictionaries will no longer appear as physical books. The final
copies are rolling off the presses at this very moment, and from next year,
Macmillan Dictionary will be available only online."
http://www.macmillaneducation.com/MediaArticle.aspx?id=1778
For the past decade or so, we have all been expecting an announcement like
this from one of the major dictionary publishers, and I am happy to see that
the honour goes to Macmillan, a key player in the monolingual learner's
dictionary market for English. Finally getting rid of the paper constraints,
and starting to exploit the true power of the digital medium -- and to be
able to do just that -- is nothing less than a revolution. I predict that
the other major publishers will now also stop talking about what should be
done, to simply take the step and do it.
More info in Michael Rundell's post below.
Kind regards,
Gilles-Maurice de Schryver
President of AFRILEX and author of "Lexicographers' Dreams in the
Electronic-Dictionary Age" (IJL 16.2, 2003, free access here
<http://www.oxfordjournals.org/page/4646/3> )
From: euralex-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:euralex-bounce%40freelists.org>
[mailto:euralex-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:euralex-bounce%40freelists.org>] On
Behalf Of Anne Dykstra
Sent: maandag 5 november 2012 10:11
To: euralex@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:euralex%40freelists.org>
Subject: [euralex] End of print dictionaries at Macmillan
Macmillan has announced that, from 2013, it will no longer be publishing
dictionaries in book form. It will focus instead on its expanding range of
digital resources. Michael Rundell, Editor-in-Chief of the Macmillan
dictionary list, sees this as both inevitable and entirely positive. He
regards the printed book as a very limiting medium, and increasingly out of
step with the way people look for information in the second decade of the
21st century. While printed reference books are out of date as soon they go
on sale, an online dictionary can be kept fully up to date. More than this,
the digital medium allows dictionary publishers to provide valuable
additional resources, like audio pronunciations, interactive games, and a
thesaurus function. As well as all these, Macmillan has a crowd-sourced
dictionary (the 'Open Dictionary') fed by users from all over the world, and
an active blog with four or five new posts every week on language-related
issues. Michael says he was struck by one of the findings reported at the
recent Euralex Congress in Gilles-Maurice de Schryver's plenary: his
analysis of papers in the Euralex archive showed that the word 'look up' had
declined in frequency and been overtaken by 'search'. This is the world that
dictionaries belong to now. For more details, see the post on this subject
in Macmillan's blog:
http://www.macmillandictionaryblog.com/bye-print-dictionary.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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