[ebooktalk] Re: Migration and language.
- From: "Elaine Harris \(Rivendell\)" <elaineharris@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <ebooktalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2013 09:59:11 +1000
Hello Steve, Still laughing; hadn't heard that Aboriginal translation
before.
The place where Himself and I were married is called Moe, (rhymes with
Chloe) and apparently translates as swamp.
Yes, there were so many tribes and so many of the tribal languages have been
lost, were never written down.
I believe Canberra translated as "Meeting place" which it was; (still is of
course, for federal parliament), at a certain time of year, many tribes
converged to feed on a certain species of large, edible (not for me) moth.
I avoid rap but have no cause to doubt you.
Take care,
Elaine
From: ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Steven Bingham
Sent: Sunday, 14 July 2013 5:54 AM
To: ebooktalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ebooktalk] Re: Migration and language.
Very interesting Elaine. I remember the Australian folk singing Gerry Hallam
once saying that most, if not all, Australian aboriginal place named
translated as "F***-off whitey." There were so many dialects that the
explorers never discovered what was going on!!
The bulk movement of the Irish in the mid-19th century definitely had an
influence in Australia, North America and even the UK. So much traditional
music from all Australia, Canada and the US shows this. Even many of the
tunes coming from the North-East of England are Irish in origin - even now
two of the North-East leading musical families are 'Irish' Geordie.
TV, as you mentioned in your earlier email, is now probably the major
transmitter of language. Another big influence seems to be pop music
particularly the more unpleasant forms of rap.
The most deplorable development in language change of recent years is not in
speech but in writing. The dreadful shorthands and abbreviated words that
are so handy when texting are gradually finding their way into people's
ordinary writing. Apparently, for the last couple of years some examiners
have been advised not to mark people down for using phrases like "u R" and
even "B4".
See you at the dogs.
Steve
From: ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Elaine Harris (Rivendell)
Sent: 13 July 2013 05:19
To: ebooktalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ebooktalk] Re: Migration and language.
Hello Steve,
The myth about "Most" Australian convicts being transported for minor crimes
contains many grains of truth, enough to be plausible, but is by no means
the whole story.
Yes, many were sent out to the colonies for stealing a loaf of bread and it
is true capital crimes were often what we would consider very minor today.
It is also a politically correct and convenient assumption. Before 1988 and
the Australian bicentenary, it was deemed not quite de rigueur to have a
convict among one's forbears. Suddenly, with the bicentennial celebrations,
everybody who was anybody wanted one. A close friend and one of the
country's leading genealogists at the time, (sadly no longer with us), was
given many a family tree to trace in the hope of finding just such an
ancestor.
Some of the crimes unearthed were not of the type you would wish to discuss
with Grandma. One Sydney society lady was ecstatic to discover that she was
indeed descended from convict stock but less delighted on learning that his
crime, well, linked the words carnal knowledge and sheep!
Many Irish dissidents were sent out here for causing political unrest. The
Tollpuddle Martyrs were each sentenced to 7 years' transportation - the
significance of their so-called crime is still debated today - though all
but one were pardoned after a huge petition was presented to Parliament. The
one not pardoned already had a criminal record.
Those whose crimes were deemed more serious were more likely to be sentenced
to transportation for life. Hence Dickens' portrayal of Abel Magwitch in
"Great Expectations" I should imagine.
There are many Irish influences as well as Cockney and others in the
colloquialisms used here. Not to mention aboriginal and cultural influences:
sun-bathing is referred to as sun-baking, for obvious reasons, and many
place names are either Aboriginal, unoriginal or named after someone famous.
(Examples on request.)
Incidentally, films about the Kelly gang were discussed here some weeks ago.
I discovered (in a book) yesterday that the first one, (silent), was
announced in December 1906 so probably came out the following year or
shortly thereafter.
Sorry this is so long and waffly.
Take care,
Elaine
From: ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ebooktalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Steven Bingham
Sent: Wednesday, 10 July 2013 8:26 PM
To: ebooktalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ebooktalk] YEAR OF WONDERS
Hi all
Just about finished this book. I have really enjoyed it. What a dreadful
story.
When Year of Wonders was being discussed someone mentioned that they thought
the use of the word "heft" was inappropriate. Well it jarred with me to. I
did a little digging and was surprised to discover that Ms Brooks is
probably right to use it. The OED does not give a very accurate definition
of the word saying simply Noun - Weight. I found elsewhere a definition that
said "The weight and balance of a Knife or other tool." It also gave
references dating from the 16th and 17th centuries.
A lot of what we choose to call Americanism in fact date from English speech
of the late 17th and early 18th centuries. They went over from the common
speech mostly of the London area with those who were transported and, of
course, those who went to guard them. Most of those transported to America
were transported for being non-conformist in their religious or political
views and tended to be more literate than those later transported to
Australia. The most common Americanism that falls into this category is
'sidewalk.' Sidewalks first appeared in London as raised walkways to the
side of a road in the main streets of London in the time of James I. At that
time they were usually made of wooden planks and were designed to keep the
feet of pedistrians out of the mud and manure that was the usual road
surface in those days. By the time of the development of Covent Garden
iearly in the 1700s they were raised pavements as we know them and were
coming to be called pavements.
A lot of Australianism come from the speech of the lower classes again
mostly from the London area of the late 18th century through to the middle
of the 19th century. Transportation to Australia tended to be for rather
petty crimes. Remember you were hanged for stealing a loaf of bread until
about 1830.
Apologies if this bores you but I do the digging and feel inclined to pass
it on.
Steve
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