Hello all, Marlon, that is a very interesting idea of course, and probably the way to go, for most of those interested in the growing "field" and the many diverse practices. I think your suggestion as to widening the focus is also quite understandable. There was some discomfort, slowly simmering over the past few years, about (still) designating a "movement" or a cohesive community that understands its work and its ideas to fall into a bracket such a "dance and technology." Embodied Performance and Computation has nice scientific ring to it,.... not sure it appeals to a majority of artists making performance. Then again, one of the advantages of the grown and internationally linked dance-tech and performance-tech community was its initial focus on dance (within augmented or computational environments) and on choreography/improvisation, and a close link to music/musicians, which created a sense of identification which i remember well, in the 90s. This may have changed for many of us, but the dance-tech mallist was a forum which I always enjoyed and appreciated, partly because i was able to get to know quite a few people working in the same or similar vein, face to face. There was an on-going exchange and there were continuities. One of the questions i tried to raise in my (perhaps ill-advised) post- which was already rebutted by Sandy Strallen, was whether a discussion forum as we had it for about 6 to 10 years can continue or whether the field of practice has grown too large and too diversified to have such a forum, and new kinds of platforms are now in use. I note also that some discussion lists hold regular monthly debates that are curated and involve guests artists who function as catalysts for the debate (EMPYRE list), and that has often proven to be quite facsinating. I certainly did not mean to criticize a film festival (LIDFF), and admit i was not there to witness myself, so i had no reason to say anything except in manner of picking up a thread from Doug and Helene. Nor did I shed dark doubts on blogs and the rapid multiplication of open networks, archives, and resources. On the contrary. I think we try to contribute to them , and to what Marlon calls "interconnected distributed dialog," and many on this list probably have done so and are doing so. I suppose i was raising a question about how such dispersed data accumulation/information/announcements/diaries and blogging crystallizes dialog, and how can it develop critical depth and be sustained, and also lead to, and nurture, the necessary face to face meetings. regards johannes birringer ----- Original Message ----- (Marlon) Hello, I don't have a lot of time to write more specific response right now. I think that we need to create our own site as a social network. That will allow us to feel a more face to face interconnected distributed dialog. That technology will allow us to create "groups", post performances, embed videos, and our users will be able to visit their areas or groups and review different levels of discussion. I also propose to widen the focus to "new media and performance" or embodied performance and computation, I am willing to set it up. ans What do you think? More thoughts later. Marlon On Nov 3, 2007, at 4:16 PM, Johannes Birringer wrote: Hi all couldn't agree more with what Doug and Hélène are saying here. What i regret, of course, is that there is indeed very little critical and sustained debate, even here, on new works or on festivals and curatorial frameworks.... or relations for screen dance or new dance involving screens/projections or developing mixed reality performances. There are a host of new issues that have arisen, perhaps not necessarily for choreography-for-camera- productions (screendance), but for "choreography" or postchoreography as such, for capture technologies, for movement as digital (data) processing, for play/performance in virtual environments or worlds (Second Life has become a screen world too, and I see performances happen therein), for dance with wearables (wearable screens and flexible materials, garments, surfaces, media skins, architectures), within the digital and real-time processing worlds, within networked tele-plateaus. I don't think there is much debate here on these pages, anymore. Our maillists have become feeble bulletin boards, occasional news items, announcements, and the dance-tech list also is in such a strange lull, a silent phase of no debate or exchange of viewpoints (last summer, Mark Coniglio invited feedback to his latest video/performance/site specific project, but I think the piece was shown/displayed on a blog site or YouTube and commentators left their viewpoints there-else, ; i think Marlon Barrios Solano also mentioned to our community a few times that he had done intereviews, and that was very informative and helpful and is to be commended, but I think these interviews and podcasts then are stored or displayed on blogs , and our attention and our reading/writing/communicating further dissolved/dissiciated and distributed. (I seldom read blogs any more as i have simply not time to follow up all the blig links i get sent),. so debate and controversy, as we still had it in the summer and fall of 2006 after a series of postings, has now been replaced by acquiescence? and our globalized standards of promotional etiquette (.."superlative descriptions"...)? -- i can't quite make sense of the silence either, except that demands on our time and on production / R&D / and research (and on writing the superlative press releases and writing the grants to have funds to make something can be released and superlatived) have increased .. surely there are planty of issues to discuss, and new workshops, international labs, festivals and encuentros, as well premieres of new works are happening all the time -- announcements of interesting gatherings in Portugal and Spain just reached us. After the Moves Screen Choreography Conference in Manchester (June 2007), i had also suggested to Simon and others that it would be good to have a review of the conference and the festival, so others who were not there, as well as the participants, could share some critical reflections on what was said and presented. There were some highlights, and some weak points as well, and the conference had an academic feel to it that surprised me -- could have been the environment. Universities lecture rooms tend to have a strange effect on art, and on dance, Has any review been forthcoming? Could we hear a counterreview of the festival (review) that sparked Doug's reply? regards Johannes Birringer DAP Lab / Dans Sans Joux West London UB8 3PH UK http://www.brunel.ac.uk/dap -----Original Message----- From: Media Arts and Dance on behalf of Helene Lesterlin Sent: Thu 11/1/2007 3:12 PM To: MEDIA-ARTS-AND-DANCE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: london dance film festival link *** This email has been sent from the MEDIA ARTS AND DANCE email forum. To respond to all subscribers email MEDIA-ARTS-AND-DANCE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx *** Hello MAD, I have to second that comment! I too read the article and was disappointed and dismayed with the level of analysis and discourse. I also looked at the program being shown in the festival and found it to be uninspiring, full of superlative descriptions (the best ever seen on the screen) that only diminished the seeming worth of the works, and with very little attempt to present what is a burgeoning genre with new works made all the time. There seemed to be little interest on the part of the curator and in the article in truly experimental works. I am revealing my bias here of course, but I think there are many many artists creating work that has nothing to do with Fred Astaire or Edouard Lock for that matter. And there are ways to talk about and show that work which open up potential audiences to new experiences rather than, as Douglas says, reinforcing stereotypes. Here here! Helene Lesterlin EMPAC On Nov 1, 2007, at 11:02 AM, Douglas Rosenberg wrote: *** This email has been sent from the MEDIA ARTS AND DANCE email forum. To respond to all subscribers email MEDIA-ARTS-AND- DANCE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx *** Dear MAD community, After reading the article and interview with Sandy Strallen at http://www.channel4.com/4talent/feature.jsp?id=6207 that Simon forwarded to us, I feel compelled to comment. The article puts forth a view of dance film that is historically inaccurate, skewed toward a Hollywood model an one that exhibits a complete lack of understanding about film and media art culture in general. In short it furthers an agenda that pits the commerce of art against the art of experimentation. To state that, "Part of the "problem" of recent dance on film is that it has often been a refuge for mediocre choreography using clever angles and lighting to fool audiences into thinking that we're seeing "dancefilm" . is to simply rephrase the similar argument that was directed at the painting of the abstract expressionists, (for instance) ie, "my child could do that". Without making any attempt to quantify what constitutes "good chorography" (is it ballet?) the text reinforces a modernist ideology about the work of art and genius that we know to be suspect at best. I could go on, but I urge you all to take this polemical set of poorly researched non-arguments to task. It is difficult to tell which are the statements of Sandy Strellen and which are the words of the interviewer/author, but taken as a whole, the article irresponsibly reinforces cliched stereotypes and hackneyed observations. I hope to continue this conversation with some of you at the upcoming OSVD at Findhorn. Best to all, Douglas Rosenberg On Nov 1, 2007, at 8:32 AM, simon fildes wrote: *** This email has been sent from the MEDIA ARTS AND DANCE email forum. To respond to all subscribers email MEDIA-ARTS-AND- DANCE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx *** In case you didn't have a closer look at the programme and some background..... http://www.channel4.com/4talent/feature.jsp?id=6207 http://www.riversidestudios.co.uk/cgi-bin/season.pl?f=London% 20International%20Dancefilm%20Festival%202007 Simon Fildes Lecturer in Media Arts and Dance School of Media Arts and Imaging Duncan of Jordanstone University of Dundee 07813 714951 01382 385250 www.imaging.dundee.ac.uk www.left-luggage.co.uk www.videodance.org.uk www.move-me.com www.hyperchoreography.org www.screendance.org http://videodance.blogspot.com Marlon Barrios Solano unstablelandscape@xxxxxxxxx New Media Designer http://unstablelandscape.net http://vj-u.net SL avatar: mars barragar Skype: unstablelandscape IChat: ustableladscap