[dance-tech] Re: london dance film festival / critical debate / postchoreography

  • From: Marlon Barrios Solano <unstablelandscape@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: Johannes.Birringer@xxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 09:33:24 -0500

I don't have a lot of time to write more  specific response right now.
I think that we need to create our own site as a social network. That will allow us to feel a more face to face interconnected distributed dialog. That technology will allow us to create "groups", post performances, embed videos, and our users will be able to visit their areas or groups and review different levels of discussion. I also propose to widen the focus to "new media and performance" or embodied performance and computation,
I am willing to set it up. ans
What do you think?
More thoughts later.

On Nov 3, 2007, at 4:16 PM, Johannes Birringer wrote:

Hi all

couldn't agree more with what Doug and Hélène are saying here.

What i regret, of course, is that there is indeed very little critical and sustained debate, even here, on new works or on festivals and curatorial frameworks.... or relations for screen dance or new dance involving screens/projections or developing mixed reality performances. There are a host of new issues that have arisen, perhaps not necessarily for choreography-for-camera- productions (screendance), but for "choreography" or postchoreography as such, for capture technologies, for movement as digital (data) processing, for play/performance in virtual environments or worlds (Second Life has become a screen world too, and I see performances happen therein), for dance with wearables (wearable screens and flexible materials, garments, surfaces, media skins, architectures), within the digital and real-time processing worlds, within networked tele-plateaus.

I don't think there is much debate here on these pages, anymore. Our maillists have become feeble bulletin boards, occasional news items, announcements, and the dance-tech list also is in such a strange lull, a silent phase of no debate or exchange of viewpoints (last summer, Mark Coniglio invited feedback to his latest video/performance/site specific project, but I think the piece was shown/displayed on a blog site or YouTube and commentators left their viewpoints there-else, ; i think Marlon Barrios Solano also mentioned to our community a few times that he had done intereviews, and that was very informative and helpful and is to be commended, but I think these interviews and podcasts then are stored or displayed on blogs , and our attention and our reading/writing/communicating further dissolved/dissiciated and distributed. (I seldom read blogs any more as i have simply not time to follow up all the blig links i get sent),.

so debate and controversy, as we still had it in the summer and fall of 2006 after a series of postings, has now been replaced by acquiescence? and our globalized standards of promotional etiquette (.."superlative descriptions"...)? --

i can't quite make sense of the silence either, except that demands on our time and on production / R&D / and research (and on writing the superlative press releases and writing the grants to have funds to make something can be released and superlatived) have increased ..

surely there are planty of issues to discuss, and new workshops, international labs, festivals and encuentros, as well premieres of new works are happening all the time -- announcements of interesting gatherings in Portugal and Spain just reached us.

After the Moves Screen Choreography Conference in Manchester (June 2007), i had also suggested to Simon and others that it would be good to have a review of the conference and the festival, so others who were not there, as well as the participants, could share some critical reflections on what was said and presented. There were some highlights, and some weak points as well, and the conference had an academic feel to it that surprised me -- could have been the environment. Universities lecture rooms tend to have a strange effect on art, and on dance, Has any review been forthcoming? Could we hear a counterreview of the festival (review) that sparked Doug's reply?


Johannes Birringer
DAP Lab / Dans Sans Joux
West London
UB8 3PH   UK

-----Original Message-----
From: Media Arts and Dance on behalf of Helene Lesterlin
Sent: Thu 11/1/2007 3:12 PM
To: MEDIA-ARTS-AND-DANCE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: london dance film festival link

*** This email has been sent from the MEDIA ARTS AND DANCE email forum. To respond to all subscribers email MEDIA-ARTS-AND- DANCE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ***

Hello MAD,

I have to second that comment!  I too read the article and was
disappointed and dismayed with the level of analysis and discourse.
I also looked at the program being shown in the festival and found it
to be uninspiring, full of superlative descriptions (the best ever
seen on the screen) that only diminished the seeming worth of the
works, and with very little attempt to present what is a burgeoning
genre with new works made all the time.  There seemed to be little
interest on the part of the curator and in the article in truly
experimental works.  I am revealing my bias here of course, but I
think there are many many artists creating work that has nothing to
do with Fred Astaire or Edouard Lock for that matter.  And there are
ways to talk about and show that work which open up potential
audiences to new experiences rather than, as Douglas says,
reinforcing stereotypes.  Here here!

Helene Lesterlin

On Nov 1, 2007, at 11:02 AM, Douglas Rosenberg wrote:

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Dear MAD community,
After reading the article and interview with Sandy Strallen at
http://www.channel4.com/4talent/feature.jsp?id=6207 that Simon
forwarded to us, I feel compelled to comment.  The article puts
forth a  view of dance film that is historically inaccurate, skewed
toward a Hollywood model an one that exhibits a complete lack of
understanding about film and media art culture in general.  In
short it furthers an agenda that pits the commerce of art against
the art of experimentation.  To state that,

"Part of the "problem" of recent dance on film is that it has often
been a refuge for mediocre choreography using clever angles and
lighting to fool audiences into thinking that we're seeing
"dancefilm" .

is to simply rephrase the similar argument that was directed at the
painting of the abstract expressionists, (for instance) ie, "my
child could do that".  Without making any attempt to quantify what
constitutes "good chorography" (is it ballet?) the text reinforces
a modernist ideology about the work of art and genius that we know
to be suspect at best.  I could go on, but I urge you all to take
this polemical set of poorly researched non-arguments to task. It
is difficult to tell which are the statements of Sandy Strellen and
which are the words of the interviewer/author, but taken as a
whole, the article irresponsibly reinforces cliched stereotypes and
hackneyed observations.  I hope to continue this conversation with
some of you at the upcoming OSVD at Findhorn.
Best to all,
Douglas Rosenberg

On Nov 1, 2007, at 8:32 AM, simon fildes wrote:

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In case you didn't have a closer look at the programme and some



Simon Fildes
Lecturer in Media Arts and Dance
School of Media Arts and Imaging
Duncan of Jordanstone
University of Dundee

07813 714951
01382 385250


Marlon Barrios Solano
New Media Designer
SL avatar: mars barragar
Skype: unstablelandscape
IChat: ustableladscap

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