[cryptome] All that glisters is not gold. Was: RE: Re: A Question of Trust.. Report on Investigative Powers UK Govt 2015

  • From: "Douglas Rankine" <douglasrankine2001@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <cryptome@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2015 18:30:51 +0100

Hi Shaun,

When I were a lad, I had a similar experience...perhaps it happens to us
all. I was at that age where the world is ones oyster. For some reason,
I became fascinated with that common phrase, "Finders Keepers". I remember
discussing it with me mum, and me grannie, and me dad. They were the
founts of all wisdom (if not wealth) in my life at the time. I was told, in
no uncertain terms that Finders was NOT keepers, and that if I did find
something, I should try to establish who owned it and return it to them or
bring it home to me mum. As time went by, I discovered that there was one
way in which I could keep what I had found...how, I don't remember; and that
was to take it into the Police Station and hand it in. If I did that, then,
if no one claimed it, after 6 months, it would become mine and all I had to
do was to go back to the Police Station and it would be given to me.

Now, I came from a little village in Scotland, where everyone knew each
other, especially the local Policeman, and the Police Station was just
across the road from where my grandmother lived, so she was well acquainted
with the local bobbies. One day, I found a brooch in the gutter, all
glittery and shiney. I was so excited. I immediately thought that instead
of trying to find the owner, or take it home, I will take it to the Police
Station, as it was only across the road, and see what happens. In I went,
and, on duty was P.C. Turner, who listened to my story and took in the
brooch and duly recorded it in the book and I had to sign my name as to
where and when I found it, and what I thought it was, and he put it in an
envelope and off I went home, very happy and rather tremulous as to whether
the owner would claim it within the time. When I got home, I told me mum
all about it and she smiled and said that though I had done the right thing,
really I should have brought it home, as it might not be quite the treasure
it was. After a while, I completely forgot all about it, until six months
later I got a letter from the Police Station, saying that as the brooch
hadn't been claimed, it was now my property and all I had to do was to go
down there and sign for it. I was really excited and off I went, running
down to the station to collect my treasure. By this time, I was six months
older, and I am sure that you can imagine my disappointment to find out that
it was a bit of costume jewellery, with a broken clasp and worth nuffink at

Reminds me of that story of Oscar Wilde's. "The Nightingale and the Rose"
really sad.



From: cryptome-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:cryptome-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Shaun O'Connor
Sent: 13 June 2015 12:57
To: cryptome@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [cryptome] Re: A Question of Trust.. Report on Investigative Powers
UK Govt 2015

Good find there Doug,
I am reminded of some correspondence I had with a company that was using a
third party for age verification based on supplied information from a person
wishing to verify their age,.
the company claimed that the the data path between itself and the third
party was secure and that all identifying data would be erased, I argued
that even in the event of such data erasure there would still be trace data
remaining in the network since there would not necessarily be a direct one
to one path between the involved parties. I therefore concluded that the
public where being misled, ( other legal issues relating to personal data
and jurisdictional issues where also touched upon).

Ultimately the company concerned ceased its age verification program
following the conversation.
So yes most definitely the question of storage, security and deta erasure to
a sufficiently acceptable degree of reliability is a very knotty question
that, in my view warrents close scrutiny.



On 13/06/2015 10:41, Douglas Rankine wrote:

See url: http://cryptome.org/2015/06/question-of-trust.pdf

Page 33.

"Show me six lines written by the most honest man in the world, and I will
find enough therein to hang him." Cardinal Richelieu

Dear Colleagues,

As I was reading through this report (A Question of Trust) I came across the
above quote very early on, which I thought expressed so well, the way that
many folks feel when it comes to all this massive collection and storage of
all data pertaining to the internet of things. I am working my way through
the document, which I am finding quite interesting and easy to read and it
is most helpful in my getting a better understanding of the issues involved,
particularly the historical aspects and its width and breadth.

I would recommend reading it to those of you who have a particular
interest in the subject, particularly our 5 eyes citizens, as it helps
encapsulate what is happening in the world of Information Technology amongst
those nation states; its security (or the lack of it) and the balance
between data collection for the security purposes of the state, or for the
use of the private corporation; and protecting individual civil liberties,
such as free speech, freedom of association and freedom to inform
anonymously, through selective measures, both legal and in practice. Please
note, I am neither endorsing, or supporting, or condemning this report, but
trying to look at the stuff which interests me and may interest others, from
the point of view of an individual consumer and the man on the Clapham
omnibus... J. Neither do I consider it the "b" all and "end" all of
information on the subject. However, in my view it is a good starting point
to see where the problems are, what the problems are; and which way the UK
government is thinking and may develop its policies, laws, regulations and
methodologies of collection and protection in the future, and how those
developments will affect the relationship between the security of the state
and the civil liberties of the individual.

One problem which needs to be addressed in my view, and is nearly always
missed or goes unnoticed, is that once electronic information is collected
and stored, it cannot be deleted, unless the storage media itself is
destroyed effectively. A second problem is that whilst information may be
deleted from one storage media, it doesn't mean to say that it will be
deleted from all forms of storage media. In my view one of the best ways,
but not the only way, to operate a safer collection system would be to have
no mass collection and for the intelligence services and law enforcement to
use more selective and targeted practices, against suspected criminals or
terrorists; backed up by stronger public oversight (idealism rears its ugly
head again... J). Until such a system is in place, publicly verifiable,
open and transparent, then any measures for deletion of bulk electronic
material will not receive my support, however qualified by judicial or
executive or administerial oversight...With that in mind I will be
continuing to read this report with interest...and will let you know...when
and if I can be bothered...and if I think you are sufficiently
interested...and I am not doing any building work or gardening... J. As
always our colleagues views are much appreciated... J.







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  • » [cryptome] All that glisters is not gold. Was: RE: Re: A Question of Trust.. Report on Investigative Powers UK Govt 2015 - Douglas Rankine