[CPT-FGC] Re: Hi

  • From: "Donaldson, Alasdair" <alasdair.donaldson@xxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: "cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 10:20:41 +0000

Thats the cheezy type of oldschool hero stuff that I am glad they have gotten 
rid of imo.

Once again, that's my major issue with this. The idea of a hero murdering the 
bad guy is accepted happily, while the idea of actually staying true to some 
sort of moral code is viewed as old school.
Superman is not supposed to be realistic, even within the DC universe. A lot of 
the other characters there have trouble dealing with someone who is that pure.

I don't know - given that both made such strong stands against murder, it's not 
a natural progression, unless we're now celebrating the moral disintegration of 
heroism? Is mediocrity and bowing to 'the system' now heroic? That's why we 
have Dexter and the Punisher - we do need violent justice, but we also need the 
idea of the Paladin - otherwise we are no more than grime packaged as sentient.
I think it's a case of consumerism beating down nobility.

The thing is, in neither case was the murder strictly necessary. The Superman 
film degenerated into sloppy action sequences and they didn't know how to end 
it. Wait, the writer obviously had this 'cutting edge' idea - but then it's 
DC's fault for hiring someone who didn't get Superman to write the film - which 
suggests that DC doesn't get Superman anymore either.

The change is too extreme and isn't accompanied with the requisite 
psychological progression or change - if you want them to kill, you need to 
change the characters sufficiently, within the storyline, so that their actions 
now make sense in the new paradigm. Having not shifted the paradigm, you cannot 
expect the action to be 'understandable'. It would make more sense for Dexter 
to start forgiving killers, than for Superman to kill.

I dont see how having characters conform to such a arbitrary "rule" without 
justification being a good idea

Are you seriously saying that not killing people is an arbitrary rule? At what 
point in our society did we devolve to the point where killing the opponent is 
the go-to option, especially for those who are supposed to be heroes, and above 
the usual human failings?


From: cpt-fgc-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:cpt-fgc-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
Behalf Of Wynand-Ben
Sent: 05 December 2013 12:09 PM
To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [CPT-FGC] Re: Hi

"My issue is that both Bats and Supes are supposed to be incorruptible. For 
both of them there is no justification for killing an enemy."

Thats whats completely stupid and unrealistic(Yea I im mentioning realism when 
are talking about superheroes) imo and im glad they got rid of it.


I dont see how having characters conform to such a arbitrary "rule" without 
justification being a good idea, even if anybody could easily imagine 
situations where their ideals would not function properly.

Unless they pull out some Mc Guyver like conveniece by magically being able to 
find some way to trap/subdue their enemy with some matches and a piece of 
gum(Or their tech/magic like equivalent).  Thats lazy writing in my eyes.

Thats the cheezy type of oldschool hero stuff that I am glad they have gotten 
rid of imo.
________________________________
From: alasdair.donaldson@xxxxxxxxxx<mailto:alasdair.donaldson@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [CPT-FGC] Re: Hi
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 09:58:21 +0000
Ah, that's exactly it. It was justified in the situations.
Batman was fighting against a madman who was trying to destroy the city. Supes 
was fighting against someone who had the potential to destroy the world.
In both of these situations, the death of the villain is justified. It serves 
the greater good. The world is a better place without Ra's or Zod.

My issue is that both Bats and Supes are supposed to be incorruptible. For both 
of them there is no justification for killing an enemy.

Killing an enemy once does make them anti-heroes. They're still the 
protagonist, and they're still on the side of good and all that. They've just 
lost what made them the pure/true heroes.

In terms of the booze idea, never drinking would make them heroes. Drinking 
(once or more) would make them anti-heroes. Being alcoholics would make them 
villains.

From: cpt-fgc-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cpt-fgc-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
[mailto:cpt-fgc-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Wynand-Ben
Sent: 05 December 2013 11:50 AM
To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [CPT-FGC] Re: Hi

A anti-hero is a character trait imo.  Something permanent and the way he acts 
in general.

A character gets drunk once doesnt make him a alchaholic and its the same with 
this and supes.

Killing once doesnt make you a anti-hero, even less if it can be justified in 
the situation(I think it was imo).
________________________________
From: alasdair.donaldson@xxxxxxxxxx<mailto:alasdair.donaldson@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [CPT-FGC] Re: Hi
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 09:37:11 +0000
How did Batman not become an anti-hero? He lets a man die. It doesn't even seem 
to bother him later. The death of Dent does bother him, but less because it 
happened on his watch and more because of what Dent became.

Superman has murdered someone. He's outright broken the guy's neck in a fight. 
That's okay though because he feels bad about it. Extreme last resort? I dunno 
about that. Supes from the comics is genius level intelligence. He's got all 
the knowledge from most of the universe in his head. He's fighting against an 
equal in terms of strength and abilities, so because of that, he has to kill 
the guy? With all of his (and Zod's) unreal abilities and intellect, the best 
that they can do is murder.

The fact that you can view two characters as not being anti-heroes, despite the 
fact that they're both outright murderers, is an issue. Neither of them killed 
the enemy by accident. Neither of them were in positions of immediate and life 
threatening danger. Maybe you can argue that Supes was, but Zod had lost that 
fight already.

Maybe you're right, and they'll use this as the turning point for Supes where 
he decides that never again will he kill. I just wonder now that they took the 
line in the sand for these characters and shifted it, why bother with a line at 
all?


From: cpt-fgc-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cpt-fgc-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
[mailto:cpt-fgc-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Wynand-Ben
Sent: 05 December 2013 11:14 AM
To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [CPT-FGC] Re: Hi

Its not like they became anti-heroes tho.


Killing was a extreme last resort in supes movie...  and it clearly bothered 
him immensely.  They didnt mention him being averse to killing in the movie 
tho...  they could even use this as the event that pushed in into the "I shall 
not kill" mindset for future movies.


Dunno about the Batman stuff, can easily think of situation that he would be 
"forced" to kill but cant remember the movie being that way.  Should be way 
easier to get bats into that position than superman imo.
________________________________
From: alasdair.donaldson@xxxxxxxxxx<mailto:alasdair.donaldson@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [CPT-FGC] Re: Hi
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 09:01:52 +0000
That's fine, maybe the concepts of Superman and Batman are outdated.

In the comics, the idea of killing the bad guys is something that they think 
about. Batman specifically doesn't kill anyone. After Bain breaks his back, 
someone else takes over being Batman. After that guy lets a villain die, Bruce 
Wayne freaks out and takes back the mantle of the bat.
Similarly Superman does face retardedly strong enemies, like Zod. The whole 
point of Superman is that he is the absolute in terms of virtue. That's why he 
leads the Justice League. He's the only out there that doesn't fall from grace. 
Sure, having someone that pure is a bit boring for a film, but that's what his 
character is.

I find it a bit sad that they've taken the two characters out there in the DC 
universe who will never kill for any reason, and have both of them just give up 
and become murderers. Batman doesn't kill Ra's al Gul out of self defence. He 
lets the guy die. Superman kills Zod because he can't think of a better idea.
Great.. and that's the best that the world is supposed to offer?

Maybe it's just that there are enough anti-heroes out there and heroes with 
massive flaws. Was it too much to ask for one that doesn't just give up and 
take the easy route?

From: cpt-fgc-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cpt-fgc-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
[mailto:cpt-fgc-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Wynand-Ben
Sent: 05 December 2013 10:52 AM
To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [CPT-FGC] Re: Hi

I think its lazier writing thinking up some campy reason why superman could get 
away with not killing.

Against "normal" opponents sure, hes godlike compared to humans so he wont need 
to resort to lethal means... but against some of the other DC powerhouses or 
another Kryptonian?  Fuck off... im not a kid anymore.

Just sounds like some old cheesy leftover of what heroes of old could 
accomplish.  Beat the baddy, save the girl, everything is always fine.  Cheezy 
imo.
I just dont think that would work anymore in modern entertainment.
________________________________
From: alasdair.donaldson@xxxxxxxxxx<mailto:alasdair.donaldson@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [CPT-FGC] Re: Hi
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 08:39:57 +0000
It's lazy writing. Either that or Zack Snyder just wanted to stamp his own feel 
on it.
Either way, they got rid of one of the defining characteristics of Superman. 
He's supposed to be more than just a vigilante. He's not supposed to be a 
killer. There are heroes that walk that line - Wolverine, Cap'n, Punisher and 
alike on the Marvel side. On the DC side, Lobo, Wonder Woman, GL. They've all 
killed. Bats and Supes are supposed to be different. No excuses.


From: cpt-fgc-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cpt-fgc-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
[mailto:cpt-fgc-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Wynand-Ben
Sent: 05 December 2013 10:34 AM
To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [CPT-FGC] Re: Hi

I still dont see the problem with Supes killing...

Would not have been a paragon of virtue either if he willingly just lets people 
die that he could save
________________________________
From: alasdair.donaldson@xxxxxxxxxx<mailto:alasdair.donaldson@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [CPT-FGC] Re: Hi
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 07:11:46 +0000
I'm still pissed off with what DC has done with their films. Although I liked 
the idea of a more serious, less cartoony approach to both Batman and Superman, 
I seriously dislike the fact that they've both effectively killed enemies in 
their films - Batman lets Ra'sal Gul die in Batman begins. Supes takes out Zod. 
Great. They've both dedicated themselves to being absolute paragons of virtue 
and both first films end with them failing to uphold that.
Green Lantern was a joke.

Anyways... Still have no real idea who they could cast as Wonder Woman. Finding 
an actress who looks the part - someone who could take Batman in a fight 
without breaking a sweat - is a bit of an issue.


From: Ryan Williams [mailto:ryan820509@xxxxxxxxx]
Sent: 05 December 2013 8:35 AM
To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: Donaldson, Alasdair
Subject: Re: [CPT-FGC] Re: Hi

Not Wonder Woman material. There are far better picks.

Ben Affleck as Batman = fail.



On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 8:28 AM, Donaldson, Alasdair 
<alasdair.donaldson@xxxxxxxxxx<mailto:alasdair.donaldson@xxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
http://m.ign.com/articles/2013/12/04/gal-gadot-cast-as-wonder-woman-in-batman-vs-superman

Not sure if I agree with all the casting choices here. Then again, I'm sure 
they know what they're doing.

From: Donaldson, Alasdair
Sent: 05 December 2013 8:08 AM
To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: [CPT-FGC] Re: Hi

Thought about getting Path of Exile. Game looks good. Just don't have the time 
to play it though.

From: cpt-fgc-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cpt-fgc-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
[mailto:cpt-fgc-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of lindsey kiviets
Sent: 05 December 2013 7:25 AM
To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [CPT-FGC] Re: Hi

morning peeps,

downloaded path of exile off steam last night. game looks good for f2p game. 
system similar to torchlight but more of diablo3 style.

kingdoms rise looks good too. create your own knight, looks like a cross 
between an mmorpg and dmc.
________________________________
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2013 17:55:08 +0200
Subject: [CPT-FGCse ] Re: Hi
From: nicmuir@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:nicmuir@xxxxxxxxx>
To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
...more like a constipated rectum, but yeah, a toilet with a broken cistern 
would be similar.
LB just wantsfor BB what I want for MK.
On 4 Dec 2013 17:51, "Stephen Scheidel" 
<gieroadsteve@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:gieroadsteve@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
LB is like a toilet.
Because he is full of shit.

Humor.

On 4 December 2013 07:19, lindsey kiviets 
<lindseyak@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:lindseyak@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
get this game man , otherwise you letting everyone know im the best.
________________________________
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2013 16:53:29 +0200
Subject: [CPT-FGC] Re: Hi
From: ilitirit@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:ilitirit@xxxxxxxxx>
To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pv0Wc6ZNG3c
Original:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbOwNfqgF04

On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 3:58 PM, lindsey kiviets 
<lindseyak@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:lindseyak@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
I be there too.
________________________________
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2013 14:56:49 +0200
Subject: [CPT-FGC] Re: Hi
From: nicmuir@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:nicmuir@xxxxxxxxx>
To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>

I'm working, but I'll be there after

On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 2:27 PM, Ryan Williams 
<ryan820509@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:ryan820509@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Provided there is a sesh on Saturday, count me in.

On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 2:08 PM, Donaldson, Alasdair 
<alasdair.donaldson@xxxxxxxxxx<mailto:alasdair.donaldson@xxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
It's the run down to the holiday break, so we've got a load of work to finish 
before we shut down.
Also, I spent most of yesterday catching up on random forums and generally 
stuffing around, so trying to make up for that now.

Is there a session this Saturday?

From: cpt-fgc-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cpt-fgc-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
[mailto:cpt-fgc-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cpt-fgc-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>] On 
Behalf Of Nicholas Robertson-Muir
Sent: 04 December 2013 2:06 PM

To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [CPT-FGC] Re: Hi


Workin' like crazy here, looks like I'm not the only one.

On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 8:26 AM, Donaldson, Alasdair 
<alasdair.donaldson@xxxxxxxxxx<mailto:alasdair.donaldson@xxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
What Steam sale?
It's gone... I missed it...


From: cpt-fgc-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cpt-fgc-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
[mailto:cpt-fgc-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cpt-fgc-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>] On 
Behalf Of Ilitirit Sama
Sent: 03 December 2013 12:15 PM

To: cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cpt-fgc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [CPT-FGC] Re: Hi

Any games worth getting during the Steam Sale?
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operating under the KPMG name. KPMG International provides no services to 
clients. Each member firm of KPMG International is a legally distinct and 
separate entity and each describes itself as such. Information about the 
structure and jurisdiction of your local KPMG member firm can be obtained from 
your KPMG representative.

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This email is being sent out by KPMG International Cooperative ("KPMG 
International") on behalf of the local KPMG member firm providing services to 
you.  KPMG International Cooperative ("KPMG International") is a Swiss entity 
that serves as a coordinating entity for a network of independent firms 
operating under the KPMG name. KPMG International provides no services to 
clients. Each member firm of KPMG International is a legally distinct and 
separate entity and each describes itself as such.  Information about the 
structure and jurisdiction of your local KPMG member firm can be obtained from 
your KPMG representative.

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