Re: [cpsig] 1946 consists for No 1, 2, 3, 4, 7,8,11,12,13, 14, 809, 810, 801, 802, 45, 46

  • From: Dale Wilson <dale.wilson@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: cpsig@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 14:22:07 -0400

Basically, I am wanting to accomplish two goals: 1) figure out what would
arrive and depart Vancouver's waterfront station during a given day all
through 1946 - i.e. train times, train names, and the cars in each train. 2)
figure out how to model these as well as possible (and  I do have my eye on
some of the Great Western Passenger Car Details kits for this purpose - but
which ones to use, etc.....)

I started reviewing the October 27, 1946 Public timetable (the only one for
1946 I have access to) identifying the trains arriving and departing.  (A
copy is on the SIG site - not that Yahoo list site, but the actual CPHA site
at <http://www.cpsig.ca/> in the documents library which can be searched for
document type under public timetables.  For the name trains and No.1 and 2,
the timetable also provides a generic consist, describing cars, for example,
as follows:

Coaches
Observation Sleeper (D.R., 3 Cpt.)
Compt. Sleeper (10 Cpt.)
Sleeper (12 Sec., D.R.)
Tourist (14 Sec.) (2 cars)
Sleeper (8 Sec., D.R., 2 Cpt.) (From Soo-Dominion)
Diner

The February, 1946 edition of the public TT shows the identical line up to the above for No. 3 at Vancouver and I suspect the line up for No. 7 would also be the same. Train consists (actual) differ from the lists in the timetable because multiples of the 'scheduled' cars might be used due to traffic demands on a given day/time of year. In theory, if there were enough 'extra' sleepers (usually 12-1 cars) there would be a second diner. All cars except the colonist car are shown as being air conditioned.

Each division point having a [usually] decent restaurant, there would have been no need for on board meal services specifically aimed at coach passengers - who also would buy from the 'news butcher' - what's the origin of that name, by the way? - or consume food brought from home. This would also apply to tourist car and colonist car passengers.

(these are the cars that would arrive in Vancouver on the Toronto section of
the Dominion, train No.3.  At other points along the way, of course, the
No.3 had other cars.  My focus is Vancouver, so I ignore any cars which, for
example, are part of the train from Toronto to Winnipeg.)

Then I pulled out my MP14 for 1944 and another for 1947, trying to make
sense of this sort of information.  These documents are also on the CPHA
site in the documents library under various names including "Summary of
Equipment", etc.  Here is where I started to have some road-blocks.  There
is no category of passenger car listed in the MP 14 that describes
"coaches".  its "First Class", etc.  When I was looking for tourist cars, I
didn't see the tourist category at first, so looked around for other 14
section cars as possible matches.    Now that its been brought to my
attention, I can see that tourist cars are listed by in that part of the
document, though the listings do not separate the cars into 13 and 14
section cars.  Similar problems arise in figuring out "which colonist cars
were on No.3", or which 10 compartment cars, or which observation sleepers.

Thanks to the tips received from Dale and Dennis and Jeff and others on the
list, however, I was then directed to the Official Register of Passenger
Train Equipment - also on the CPHA library site.  There is a 1945 and a 1947
copy available there.  Fortunately, these listing do supply many of the
missing bits and pieces of information.  For example, I have been able to
determine that the Observation sleepers were almost certainly the Mount
cars, etc.  I also have been able to sort out which 12-1 sleepers were air
conditioned (for No.3 etc,) and which were not air conditioned (for No.1
etc.)  - The OROPTE is a great resource when used with the public timetable
and MP14.

For February, 1946, the listing for No. 1 into Vancouver is:

Colonist (NAC)
Coach (NAC)
Tourist (NAC)
Sleeper 12-1 (air conditioned)

I've also been pointed in the direction of another potentially useful
document: the CPR's Assignment of Space, but unfortunately could not find
one close in year to 1946, and also covering western lines.  This document
would allow one to be even more specific in determining the consists.

It would be appreciated if anyone having a significant collection of 'Assignment of Space' or 'M.P. 14' documents AND willing to share them should get in touch with the CP SIG so missing items can be added to the library. Please note that some people do NOT wish to share so that a document can be put up for anyone to use at no extra cost - their argument is that they [often] paid relatvely high prices to get such documents into their collection in the first place.

So my project is coming along.  What I need now is copies of the remaining
public timetables for 1946 - one from early in the year, another about
April, as well as June and September.  Tracking the Soo-Dominion consists
that summer and getting the dates right will be the next challenge.  From
what I am reading in other years, The Mountaineer was sort of phased in over
the course of a couple of weeks.  but in 1946, I have read that The
Mountaineer did not run.  Instead, the Soo-Dominion just ran in multiple
sections.  That's something that has proved hard to document thus far, but I
find it very fascinating.

Apologies to those on the list who think I'm going on at length....

Rob Kirkham

--
________________________________________________________
Dale Wilson  <dale.wilson@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Nickel Belt Rails, Box 483, Station "B", Sudbury, ON, P3E 4P6



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