[citansdnd] Re: Loot from casino, unarmed strike and bonuses
- From: marbleminotaur@xxxxxxx
- To: citansdnd@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:15:41 -0500
"a boon can be used to exactly replace a magic item.(i mean exactly the bonuses
granted by a boon is an item bonus an dose not stack with any other item
bonuses)
therefore at level 3 one of us could have gotten a level 6 item and one of us
could have gotten a level 7 item.(see dmg1 page 126 treasure parcels level 6
neck item grants +2 to the three secondary defenses (amulet of protection +2)
and a 7 level neck item grants +2 secondary defenses and daily resist all till
next turn (cloak of resistance) the problem here is only 2 of us could have
these items. and there fore only two of us could have had the boon. I belive i
read someplace about the monk being able to use his fist/legs to replace the
weapons on various powers. i could not find it again so i am not perfectly
clear on this. are you shure that a fist counts as a weapon? be cause i seem to
recall that it dose not count as a weapon. that was a monk thing to make it
count as a weapon. i had a paper to show to cacy once but i don't know where is
its now."
This was exactly my point. We COULD in theory have a +2 through magic items.
But not ALL of the party would have them. At our curent level, yeah, only two
of us could possibly have something as high as a +2. And about the Monk, what
you're thinking of is a Proficiency Bonus. Monks receive a Proficiency Bonus to
their unarmed attacks, which no other class receives. Anyone can use an unarmed
attack in place of a melee weapon, but only Monks would be GOOD at it. This
includes powers with the Weapon keyword. Otherwise, why would they even HAVE
Unarmed Strike be listed AS a weapon in the equipment list in the PHB? It's an
improvised weapon, but still counts as a weapon. It just doens't have a
Profciency Bonus unless you are a Monk. The Monk Multiclass Feat will more than
likely grant this Proficiency Bonus to those characters who take it.
"first every class has at least the ability to do a basic attack of some kind.
(i know not impressive)
however it is unfair of us not to be able to use our powers. unless the other
team is also limited to basic attacks. meaning the one that every class can do
as a attack of opportunity. that might level the playing field a bit. limit
bolth teams to basic attacks should be somewhat with the feat we got from
training that would be a total of +4 to hit and +1 damage before stat mods. if
we keep the unarmed feet intact."
My point was we can do this. It just will not be any fun whatsoever. I'm
serious, this would be the worst encounter ever. It would surmount to "I punch
him" and "I punch him" and "I punch him" over and over and over again. Until
either A) Our entire team goes down or B) The entire other team goes down. No
frills, no gimmicks just a long, tedious, boring encounter where we're all
pretty much the worst team ever. Besides, even with the ability we got as-is,
my character would still never hit. Strength is his second lowest score. He
will never ever ever use a Normal Basic Attack unless he absolutely HAD to, and
if he did, he'd be up a creek without a paddle. The Unarmed Strike thing as it
stands is absolutely useless to my character, because he is a CLASS where other
than his Melee Basic Attack there isn't one single Power with the Weapon
keyword. The same goes for the Invoker since I know they too have exactly zero
Weapon Keyword Powers. Shamans and Invokers both only use powers with the
IMPLEMENT Keyword. They are not weapons, and the very game mechanics themselves
do not even allow them to be confused as such.
Also, the NPCs we're getting with us in this encounter bump the Challenge
rating up so sky high we will never ever win this way. Period. Unless we only
want to gain like, three experience from the encounter, as it stands, it is
literally going to be well past five levels above our current party level. We
are going to die unless we can use our powers, and honestly I'm really not sure
even with the use of our powers we could win if the encounter is balanced with
our NPC team. Just to put things in perspective, one fo the NPCs is Level 11.
Yeah.
-----Original Message-----
From: warrl@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: citansdnd@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sun, Feb 21, 2010 1:19 pm
Subject: [citansdnd] Loot from casino, unarmed strike and bonuses
Loot from casino:
8 matching goblets, western glass crystal
glass shards equivalent to 2 more goblets
the following gambling chips, actual value (before any black-market
losses) approximately equal to face value
* 11 yellow, 1000 GP each
* 20 red, 100 GP each
* 14 black, 50 GP each
* 19 green, 10 GP each
* 25 white, 1 GP each
Total face value of the chips (which is what Casey said we got): 13,915GP, or a
touch under 1740 each.
GP value of recommended treasure parcels for a group of five level-2 characters
is 5360, or 1072 each.
Assuming Casey doesn't revise downward, we can each afford a pair of level-4
magic items, or a level-5 and a level-3, or a pair of level-3 and a level-2.
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Unarmed Strike feat
1) Casey originally gave it Reach 1. I suspect this was due to unfamiliarity
with 4th Edition terminology. If your movement leaves you one square shy of
being able to stab someone with your sword, just punch him instead.. um...
Let's forget Reach, okay?
2) Casey describes the weapon as in group Unarmed and with the property
Offhand. But he also said it can be used with any (melee?) power with the
Weapon keyword, and let Assad do Sneak Attack damage which normally requires a
Light Blade. There are reasons why Wizards puts each weapon in not more than
two groups, and even that only if one of the groups is "pole arm" or it's a
superior/multiclass weapon.
Also, consistency makes life easier. If the "weapon" counts as a certain type
for powers, it should count the same for feats and class features. Each class
is a unique combination of features, feats, and powers, and it would be
difficult to construct an "it-counts-sometimes" arrangement that treats all
classes evenly.
I suggest that each player be allowed to choose (individual variations in
training):
a) Unarmed Strike is usable with either two-weapon powers or two-handed-weapon
powers, but not both.
b) Unarmed Strike is part of any one weapon group, but not Pole Arm or anything
ranged or thrown.
This is actually a pretty powerful arrangement (better, as an add-on to a
non-monk, than the monk's unarmed strike would be), but I think this is what it
takes to allow all our melee characters to use their powers.
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Bonuses:
+2 Fort is equivalent to the Paragon feat Great Fortitude. No problem there.
The suggested strength bonus is +2 to strength but only for purposes of melee
attacks. This is hard to work into the character sheet, particularly with the
Character Builder, and also doesn't do much for non-strength-based attacks
(Assad, for example, with his suite of dex-based powers). When it applies, it
works out to +1 to hit and +1 to damage on attacks that get stat bonuses.
One easy partial fix would be to just give +2 to strength. But that applies the
bonus to a number of skills, heavy thrown weapons, and some other situations,
and still does nothing for Assad. And it would also give another +1 to
Fortitude, for any character with more Strength than Constitution (most to all
of our melee guys, and possibly some of the casters too).
What I think is a narrower fix:
A) Weapon Focus (+1 damage) Unarmed Strike.
B) Weapon Expertise (+1 attack) Unarmed Strike.
This is immediately somewhat less powerful than what Casey said, because it
wouldn't apply to other melee weapons; but it gives the damage bonus to attacks
that don't get ability-modifier damage, and also satisfies the prerequisites
for Weapon Master which applies the same benefits to all weapons - including
ranged weapons - the character is proficient with. That is at least a plausible
compromise.
(Casey: The current scenario inherently favors melee combatants over casters.
Sometime after it's done, can you give the casters a chance to show off?)
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