Re: The Juice Receiver is cross-platform

  • From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <blindcasting@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 10:03:31 -0700


This is off list.  Yeah.  Agreed.  Apple has certainly not made anything like a 
company wide commitment to accessibility.  It is ironic, for instance, that 
Apple's own iTunes software does not work with its own built-in screen reader.  
There are probably lots of other things that don't work with VoiceOver, but 
this seems to be one of the most glaring examples.  At this stage, without any 
evidence to the contrary, I am afraid VoiceOver was created to satisfy 
ADA/504/508 requirements so Apple could continue doing business in the 
education market.  I sincerely hope I am wrong.

What's up?

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jeff Bishop 
  To: blindcasting@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
  Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 10:00 AM
  Subject: RE: The Juice Receiver is cross-platform

  I think the key th ing here is to see an ongoing commitment from Apple before 
VoiceOver is taken seriously.  Sure, it is an amazing start and frankly is much 
better then most 1.0 versions of windows based screen readers, but, without 
further commitment it is simply an ADA/508 stop gap measure and nothing else.  
So, the coming months are very telling and I sincerely hope they do the right 

  From: blindcasting-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:blindcasting-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Shelly
  Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 9:17 PM
  To: blindcasting@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  Subject: Re: The Juice Receiver is cross-platform

  It is inaccurate to say that "almost everyone" uses Windows. To be sure, 
Microsoft has the lion's share of the PC operating system market, but between 
the sales of new Macs (5% or so of new OS sales) and the current installed 
base, the Mac OS is a significant enough platform to warrant consideration by 
accessibility advocates. The Mac is particularly widely installed in 
educational environments, and the promise of VoiceOver is that an off-the-shelf 
system can be made accessible with the press of a key. We're not there yet, but 
we never will be If closed-mindedness is allowed to rule the day. 

  Dismissing Mac (and Linux users for that matter) by suggesting that almost no 
one uses it is pretty much like suggesting that almost no one (comparing the 
population of blind people to the computer using world at large) needs a screen 
reader to access a computer, so why bother. At this time, a tricked out Windows 
system with Jaws or Window Eyes provides more complete accessibility than a Mac 
does. but it costs a lot more. In the non-accessibility world, cost is often 
cited as a primary benefit of Windows-based systems. I'm just sayin... 

  Despite my long association with the Mac, I am not ignorant of its 
accessibility limitations, or the degree to which some of my fellow Mac users 
have gained a reputation for zealotry. I am fortunate that previous versions of 
OS X have solved the major portion of my accessibility needs. I waited many 
years for that to happen, and I assure you that I am sensitive to the needs of 
screen reader users. I would never suggest anyone move to the Mac prematurely. 
I only insist that we deal with the facts, and not close off the potential 
opportunity for accessible systems that are both affordable and easy to 
configure for our needs, especially on the pretext that "no one uses these 
systems anyway". 

  I regre

  On 1/19/06, Darrell Shandrow <nu7i@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: 
    Hi Gabe,

    I have indicated that I have mixed feelings about the viability of the Mac
    with respect to accessibility.  I am personally a PC user.  I advocate for
    accessibility regardless of platform, but I have virtually all my computing 
    experience on the PC and virtually no such experience on the Mac.  I will
    thus tend to focus on accessibility related matters pertaining to the
    Windows, and to a lesser extent, Linux platforms.  Almost everyone out in 
    the big bad real world uses Windows.  It is already tough enough to advocate
    for better accessibility on that operating system.  Let's be careful not to
    spread our focus too wide.

    You are a Mac user.  I think that's excellent!  Please do feel free to 
    advocate for Mac related accessibility.  I will even be happy to post any
    well composed and written material concerning the subject.

    Juice Receiver is written in a variation of the Python language.  It is not 
    written in Coco, so who knows how well, if at all, it will work with
    VoiceOver in its current form.  It is open source so, by all means, feel
    free to rewrite it in Coco...  :-)

    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: "BlindTech of BlindTechs.Net" <blindtech@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
    To: <blindcasting@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
    Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 8:15 PM
    Subject: Re: The Juice Receiver is cross-platform

    > Darel:
    > as I asked in the last message and I haven't reccieved a straight  answer
    > from you yet is, as you fight for what you say accessibility  for all, 
    > will you put in an inquiry to possibly making jiuce  accessible to use
    > using the mac and voice over just as you want  everyone on the band waggon
    > on accessibility to windows users, or  Does accessibility only count with 
    > jaws?
    > On Jan 19, 2006, at 8:09 PM, Darrell Shandrow wrote:
    >> Hi Gabe,
    >> I have really mixed feelings about the Mac at this time, but I  remain
    >> open minded, especially until I see VoiceOver in action.   The evidence 
    >> at my disposal to date would suggest that  accessibility and overall
    >> functionality for blind users is still  significantly better on the
    >> Windows platform.
    >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "BlindTech of BlindTechs.Net"
    >> <blindtech@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
    >> To: <blindcasting@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
    >> Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 7:30 PM 
    >> Subject: Re: The Juice Receiver is cross-platform
    >>> Are! You! Serious!!!??????
    >>> So, your saying righyt now that accessibility is only validly   avaiable
    >>> for windows users and that is fine? not the blind that   choose to use
    >>> anything else?
    >>> Wow, this is selffish If I ever heard of it. thats just so  amazing,
    >>> and sad for all of us as a blind community as a hole. 
    >>> On Jan 19, 2006, at 6:08 PM, Chris Skarstad wrote:
    >>>> Hey, if people want alternatives, I believe the answer is most   likely
    >>>> yes.
    >>>> I have to be honest when I say that I have absolutely no  interest  in 
    >>>> using a mac, since Windows and JAWS serve their  purposes just  fine
    >>>> for me.  That doesn't necessarily mean I  won't ever try a Mac,  but
    >>>> for now, this works.
    >>>> At 06:54 PM 1/19/2006, you wrote:
    >>>>> and my question is , will the blind community, and the blind
    >>>>> advocates for accessibility such as darel shandrow and the blind 
    >>>>> access journal fight or request for accessibility for us, or is
    >>>>> accessibility only a jaws thing?
    >>>>> On Jan 19, 2006, at 7:21 AM, Jeff Bishop wrote:
    >>>>>> There are accessibility issues with the Mac version.
    >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
    >>>>>> From: blindcasting-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    >>>>>> [mailto:blindcasting-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jennifer
    >>>>>> Sutton
    >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 6:43 AM
    >>>>>> To: blindcasting@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    >>>>>> Subject: The Juice Receiver is cross-platform 
    >>>>>> Hello:
    >>>>>> I've changed the subject line since this question wasn't  relevant to
    >>>>>> my last message, at all. 
    >>>>>> As I understand it, the Juice Receiver can be used on both  Linux and
    >>>>>> the Mac.  It's entirely cross-platform.
    >>>>>> If you get it to work with Voice Over, I'd love to hear that  since,
    >>>>>> as far as I can tell, VO's ability to work depends on how programs
    >>>>>> are developed.  But I don't want to turn this list into a  
    >>>>>> of Mac and VO since there are plenty of other places to do that.
    >>>>>> Go look for what you want to try by going directly to  sourceforge
    >>>>>> at: 
    >>>>>> I found this by using Google and searching on keywords: 
    >>>>>> "ipodder for the Mac."  It was right there on the first page.   Don't
    >>>>>> forget that Google's your friend.
    >>>>>> Best,
    >>>>>> Jennifer 

  Shelly Brisbin, Writer, Editor, Geek for Hire

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