It doesn't even jive with classic Marxism. One of the tenentans of Marxism and
indeed of any sort of socialism is that property is held in common, or at least
some of it.
Yet, these yokels were making their efforts on behalf of basically privatizing
public land, or their cries were over their access to public resources for
private Capitalistic gain (their own).
To defend them as heroes of the working class is absurd.
Shit these are national parks and forest lands at issue here.
Even Teddy Roosevelt was thus much more socialistic in dedicating these lands
for public ownership and benfit.
(And he was hardly a Marxist or socialist by any means....)
----- Original Message -----
From: Alice Dampman Humel
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2016 12:43 PM
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: 'The truth will come out: Finicum was flat
murdered'
Joe and Miriam,
as past experience must have taught us by now, it does not matter what you
say or argue, no, I’ll say we, because, while I plan to say nothing, I agree
with both of you, the party line, in all its convoluted splendor, will be
maintained. I got partway through Roger’s defense and partway through the
original article, and both remind me of nothing more than fundamentalist
Biblical exegesis in all *its* convoluted splendor. And, additionally, a touch
of the old “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” thrown in for good measure.
On Feb 21, 2016, at 5:31 AM, joe harcz Comcast <joeharcz@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
These are not peasants in the classical sense or in any sense for that
matter.These folks weren't even farm workers. They were ranchers .
----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Loran Bailey (Redacted sender
"rogerbailey81" for DMARC)" <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2016 8:37 PM
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: 'The truth will come out: Finicum was flat
murdered'
I am sure that the SWP is in strong disagreement with his politics.
However, that is irrelevant to defending him against an injustice. The SWP is
also in strong disagreement with the Workers Party of Korea, for example, but
defends North Korea against imperialist aggression. As in the case of Korea the
disagreements are not played up when defending them. That would defeat the
defense. Also, there is a reason to defend the victim of this particular
injustice. If you will read the SWP constitution you will see that it states
its purpose as to establish a workers and farmers government. There are a lot
of industrial struggles to get on top of, but there are relatively few militant
farm struggles to support. Remember the aphorism that one spark can start a
prairie fire. The SWP is involved in a constant effort to identify the likely
fire starting spark. Some are more likely than others, but there is still not a
reliable crystal ball to use. That is why the party deploys comrades to one
strike while not deploying to another strike. That is why the party
collectively works to get comrades into jobs in certain industries and into
certain unions. Farming is a good deal harder to get into and out of rapidly
with the changing ebb and flow of the class struggle though. Deploying comrades
to work as migrant farm workers would be easier, but since the party's turn to
industry there have been no struggles in that sector of the working class that
has shown great promise to be the spark that might start the prairie fire. This
case, however, is a case of peasant rebellion over a real injustice and
deserves support. It is an opportunity to gain support among the American
peasantry and to encourage farmer rebellion.
On 2/20/2016 9:37 AM, Miriam Vieni wrote:
I still don't understand why the SWP would think this white supremacist
guy
who was fighting for the rights of rich guys to use public lands for
profit
is a cause, worthy of time and effort. Instead, they should have been
writing about poor Muslims who have been profiled, entrapped by the
FBI, and
imprisoned in secret detention all over our country for years.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Roger Loran
Bailey (Redacted sender "rogerbailey81" for DMARC)
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2016 11:31 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: [blind-democracy] Re: [blind-democracy]
'The
truth will come out: Finicum was flat murdered'
And what does one risk when one chooses to not fight back against
injustice?
On 2/19/2016 9:26 PM, Charles Krugman (Redacted sender ckrugman for
DMARC) wrote:
when one chooses to live as an outlaw and adopt the ways of the wild
west taking over property that doesn't belong to them they run the
risk of being killed or murderedd if one chooses to use the
melodramatic rflare.
Chuck
-----Original Message----- From: Roger Loran Bailey (Redacted sender
"rogerbailey81" for DMARC)
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2016 6:35 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] 'The truth will come out: Finicum was flat
murdered'
http://themilitant.com/2016/8007/800755.html
The Militant (logo)
Vol. 80/No. 7 February 22, 2016
'The truth will come out: Finicum was flat murdered'
BY SETH GALINSKY
Working people should denounce the cold-blooded Jan. 26 killing of
Robert "LaVoy" Finicum by Oregon State Police and the FBI; the
frame-up conspiracy charges against Ammon Bundy and others who took
part in the occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge; and
the frame-up of Dwight and Steven Hammond, two Harney County, Oregon,
cattle ranchers, imprisoned for a second time on the same bogus arson
charges dating back to 2001 and 2006.
"The truth will come out. LaVoy was just flat murdered," Tad Houpt,
the owner of a small logging company, said by phone Feb. 7. Finicum
and Bundy were traveling to a Jan. 26 community meeting that Houpt
helped organize in John Day, Oregon, when they were intercepted by the
cops.
Bundy initiated the refuge occupation Jan. 2 to draw attention both to
the frame-up of the Hammonds and to U.S. government land policies that
have been undermining the livelihood of ranchers and farmers.
The persecution of the Hammonds outraged small ranchers and farmers
throughout the West - controlled burns are common to control invasive
plants and to prevent the spread of wildfires.
Despite serving the sentence imposed by the trial judge, the Hammonds
went back to jail Jan. 4, because of a U.S. Appeals Court ruling that
their sentences didn't meet federal minimum rules.
After the trial the U.S. Bureau of Land Management vindictively
revoked the Hammonds' grazing permits, threatening the survival of
their
ranch.
Meanwhile, the Oregonian reported Feb. 6 that the scanty official
information and one grainy video released on the killing confirm many
aspects of the accounts by Shawna Cox and Victoria Sharp - who were in
the pickup truck driven by Finicum.
According to both of them, the cops first fired one shot at the
vehicle they were in after Finicum initially pulled over. Finicum then
shouted out to the cops, "I'm going to see the sheriff," a reference
to Sheriff Glenn Palmer of Grant County, who was also scheduled to be
at the John Day meeting and has been quoted in the press as saying the
Hammonds should be freed.
Finicum tried to drive away, but was soon forced off the road again.
The Oregonian reports that the FBI admits lethal force was used when
the truck "approached the checkpoint," that is, even before the
vehicle crashed into the snow bank and Finicum gets out with his
hands up.
Much of the capitalist press justifies the killing and prosecutions by
labeling Finicum and Bundy as extremists and outside agitators.
"To his detractors," the New York Times said, "he was a doctrinaire
leader of an illegal protest that is deeply opposed by many who live
near the refuge." The paper conveniently leaves out that most people
in the area support the demand to free the Hammonds and are
sympathetic to their opposition to the government land policies. Many
local residents visited the refuge, met Finicum and Bundy or donated
food and supplies to the occupiers.
Some 1,000 people attended Finicum's funeral in Kanab, Utah, Feb . 5.
While pretending to be objective, the Times' description of the scene
plays on many of its readers' prejudices. After the service there were
"cowboys on horseback and members of so-called patriot groups wearing
camouflage and carrying small weapons," it reports.
The Times did quote one rancher from Nevada, Diana Clark, at the
funeral. "All of us ranchers feel like we're backed into a corner,"
she said. "And it's hard to get anyone to acknowledge our needs, and
so they gave us a platform."
At least 22 smaller protests against the killing of Finicum took place
Feb. 6, from Florida to Washington. One common placard was "Hands Up,
Don't Shoot," a slogan first popularized by protesters against police
brutality after the killing of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri, in
2014. At events in John Day and Prineville, Oregon, dozens of local
ranchers participated.
Meanwhile, federal prosecutors have now indicted 16 supporters of the
occupation with conspiracy to "prevent by force, intimidation and
threats, officers and employees of the United States Fish and Wildlife
Service . from discharging the duties of their office" at the wildlife
refuge.
The list of what the indictment calls "overt acts" to further the
conspiracy is proof itself that the prosecution is a frame-up.
The first "act" it lists is an Oct. 5 meeting where Ammon Bundy warned
Harney County Sheriff David Ward that if the Hammonds went to jail
there could be "extreme civil unrest."
Although the occupiers are not accused of pointing their weapons at
anyone, the indictment claims that they "brandished and carried
firearms." Oregon law allows the open carrying of firearms.
Bundy released a statement from prison Feb. 6, noting that the
occupation was civil disobedience. He encouraged those "who disagree
with my speech" or dislike his ideas to engage in civil discussion.
"If you do not advocate for government to tolerate ideas that it
hates, then the First Amendment and free speech mean nothing," he
said. "Arm yourself with ideas. . Argue and disagree. Be free."
Supporters of the Hammonds continue to organize. A new online petition
calling on President Barack Obama to free the Hammonds had 3,341
signatures as of Feb. 9. The Oregon Cattlemen's Association is asking
that donations be sent to: The Hammond Family, c/o Sandra Carlon at US
Bank, 493 N. Broadway, Burns, Oregon 97720.
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