Let me remind you of something. I know that you have a problem with
being told that I have told you something over and over, but when I tell
you something over and over the reason is that you just don't seem to
get it and I have to repeat myself. So let me repeat myself again. This
is something I have told you over and over. I say what I mean and I mean
what I say. There are no hidden meanings in what I say. I don't quite
even know how to get hidden meanings into what I say. The sooner you
realize that I mean it when I say that I mean what I say and say what I
mean the sooner you will be able to understand what I really mean when I
say something and the sooner you will stop claiming I said things that I
did not say or meant something that I did not mean. And, believe me, you
do just keep reading things into what I say that are simply not there
and I find myself being accused of things that had never even entered my
mind. I find myself completely mystified by some of the things you say I
am doing. Bear in mind that I am literal minded and do not say things
that I did not say.
---
Voltaire
“ Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities. ”
― Voltaire,
On 7/25/2019 9:22 PM, Miriam Vieni wrote:
Remember that expressing an opinion means talking about one's own thoughts on a
subject. It does not mean criticizing what another list member has written or
correcting another person unless that person specifically asks for correction.
It's also important to be capable of telling the difference between a
rhetorical question and an inquiry for information. We have a list member who
is as close to ideal in terms of list participation as one can get, and that's
Carl. He's a lot gentler than I am. His comments about what other list members
say are responsive. He often does attempt to provide feedback when someone is
being negative, but he's so gentle and indirect, that I'm not sure that his
remonstrances are even understood sometimes. But even Carl has lost patience
with Mustafa to the point that very occasionally, he'll mention his behavior
gratuitously. But what Carl wants to do is express his thoughts and opinions
while providing positive feedback to all of us. He tries to be attuned to what
people are feeling, and responsive to that.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx On Behalf Of Roger Loran Bailey (Redacted
sender "rogerbailey81" for DMARC)
Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2019 8:25 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: Rules of Decorum
I hope that the next time I express my opinion on something just like everyone
else does that you will follow your own advice here.
---
Voltaire
??? Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.
???
??? Voltaire,
On 7/25/2019 5:00 PM, Miriam Vieni wrote:
I think that in the past, I mentioned having been a member of a women's
consciousness raising group. If I remember correctly, the group was formed
in 1970. There was a project at the State College at Old Westbury
which was organizing women's discussion groups throughout Long Island.
I was reminded of the origins of that group while reading a novel
which mentioned the political revolutionary spirit that was involved
in the formation of the State College at Old Westbury. I'd forgotten
that. Anyway, these groups were not the usual sort of discussion
groups. There was a special format which had been developed to help
people talk about the important, intimate aspects of their lives in a
warm and accepting environment, one where they wouldn't feel judged or
criticized. The idea was that if women talked about their lives, they
would see that there was a pattern, a system of male domination
imbedded in our culture which had influenced what happened to them.
They would see that their experiences were not only their own individual
experiences, but were part of a whole social system which imprisoned them.
They would see that, "the personal is political". In order for the
group to work effectively, we had to be careful not to be judgmental
toward each other. We had to learn to listen, to express
understanding, but not to criticize. In a way, what we were asked to
do in those consciousness raising groups, was similar to what I'd been
taught to do in the counseling classes in social work school. When I
was growing up and during my early adulthood, there was a rule, a sort
of folk wisdom saying, that everyone knew and of which we reminded each other
as the dates for family gatherings approached.
It's a rule for good manners that my older daughter and son-in-law
heard somewhere, (certainly not from me), and that they try to observe
whenever they entertain company. The rule is, "Don't discuss religion or
politics".
Of course, this can result in some pretty boring conversations, but it
does keep the peace. Everyone is calm and good natured and no one's
digestion is disturbed. Then, in the 1990's, I found myself
participating on several email groups, usually groups for potential
adoptive parents. I was doing adoption home studies and participating
on those lists was a way to form relationships and acquire clients. I
remember that there were very sstrict rules on those lists, regarding
how people behaved toward each other. People could get pretty
emotional when discussing adopting from different countries, children of
different races, different adoption agencies, etc.
The rule was, "No flaming anyone!", and it was strictly administered.
But things have changed on the internet. I gather that few people use
email lists anymore. I see notices to people who leave comments
regarding various articles, requesting them to be civil. And on
podcasts, I hear about how devastating people's tweets can be. I read
in novels about how young people can be terrorized by what is written on
Facebook pages.
Perhaps it's the impersonality of the internet that permits people to
stop seeing the humanity in other people. Perhaps it would be helpful
if each time we were about to write something on the internet, we
would think about the recipients of what we write, sitting around our
kitchen tables with cups of coffee or tea and a piece of blueberry
pie. We could pretend that the most difficult guy on an email list is our
elderly, grouchy uncle.
Miriam
