Yes, Yeltsin.
Certainly, the US is not responsible for Putin's decisions. I need to tell you
that when I was working in international adoptions, my dislike of Putin and the
Russian government and all of the Russians who were benefiting from the
international adoption business, needed no assistance from the US press or
anyone else. I realise that you think of me as some fuzzy headed Liberal who
gives enemies of the US a pass but there are all sorts of things about my
experiences and thought processes that aren't obvious from what I write in
emails about US foreign policy.
The adoptions from Russia were some of the most difficult to assist people with
and a great deal of the difficulty had to do with the interminable bureaucracy
and the complex laws. Always throughout thos years, and those adoptions started
in the early 90's, I kept thinking about Putin as a KGB operative. There was a
Russian law which said that only physically disabled children could be adopted
by foreigners. The law followed from a traditional belief imbedded in the
Communist system which was that no family was too poor to care for a child
because Communism provided for everyone. Therefore, only a damaged child would
be brought to an orphanage. Therefore, every child in an orphanage must be
damaged in one way or another. Of course, that wasn't true, but it didn't
matter. Every child was provided with a diagnosis and the diagnosis was almost
always neurological in nature. Now most adoptive parents wanted to adopt
healthy children so the problem was to figure out which children were actually
disabled and which ones were not. A whole industry grew up in the US to deal
with this: pediatricians who viewed medical reports from Russia and later on,
videos when we could get them, to try to figure out if the babies and children
were healthy. But this is even more complicated than it seems because healthy
children left in institutions for any prolonged period of time, develop
behaviors which look like the behaviors of neurologically damaged children.
Often, you can't tell if a child is OK unless he or she has been living with
his adoptive parents for many months or a year, receiving love, nutrition and
normal stimulation. The basically healthy child will begin to behave normally.
The child who is neurologically damaged, will not. Russia is the only country
which continued to provide every child with a neurological diagnosis, even
after they supposedly changed their law to stop the practice. Interestingly,
although children from all over the world are damaged by institionalization,
the Russian children seemed to be the worst. The Romanian children were close
behind. The children from all the eastern block countries compared poorly with
the children whom I've seen from China, Korea, and South and Central America.
I mentioned, off list I think, that I'd visited Russia. I also visited China
the same year. The two trips were very different but one thing can be compared.
The Russian trip involved a cruise all through their big river with stops along
the way. On the China trip, we also went on a river cruise, a small one for
only a few days. The little Chinese cruise ship had all the conveniences, a
front desk with phones in the cabins, nice food, educational lectures. The food
on the Russian cruise ship was terrible. The ship itself was inconvenient and
seemed old fashioned, although we were told that it had been built in Germany.
It must have been built to Russian specifications. Sometimes, they ran out of
hard boiled eggs for breakfast which was a tragedy because that was about all
they gave us to eat for breakfast. The only good thing I remember about the
ship is the very good vodka that they had in the bar and the beautiful sunsets
each evening. China was extremely controlled and authoritarian, but they knew
how to make life pleasant for tourists.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Evan Reese
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2018 2:54 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: New member
I think your thinking of Borris Yeltsin.
And whatever the Chicago school of economics did in Russia, and I won't debate
that, the U.S. is not to blame for Vladimir Putin's decisions, such as
imprisoning his critics, or poisoning them with nerve agents. He bares
responsibility for those.
Evan
-----Original Message-----
From: Miriam Vieni
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2018 1:53 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: New member
Remember that the US sent people, agents, the National Endownemnt For Democracy
and others, to influence what happened in Russia when Communism ended. These
people and the economists from Chicago, were the ones whose economic programs
were put in place to replace Communism, and it was because the US supported a
weak alcoholic, that Putin was able to take power.
Because of my short term memory loss, I can't remember the name of that Russian
leader and I also can't remember the name of the famous Chicago economist, but
he, the economist, caused havoc all over the world. After World War 2, FDR
Churchill and Stalin met at Yalta and divided the world among them. Russia was
handed all of those eastern European countries as well as East Germany. There
were always Russians living in Eastern Ukraine while Western Ukraine had other
ethnic groups. It was a culturally divided country.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2018 12:38 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: New member
The eastern European countries never had violent revolution to overthrow
anything. They all fell into the orbit of the Soviet Union after World War II,
and the rule of those communist parties existed because, and only because of
the Soviet union. When the Soviets lost their stomach for violent repression of
eastern European’s, good stuff happened. But I’m not so sure how all those
things actually turned out. Look at Polin for instance. And the mess in the
Ukraine, which of course was actually part of the Soviet union. And those are
also small countries. The Soviet Union fell apart basically nonviolently, which
I think was a surprise to a lot of people. But look what they have now,
Vladimir Putin, no friend of democracy and a very very rich oligarch in his own
ride who still remembers how to act like the KGB agent he was.
So maybe peaceful revolutions are possible on the small scale. But I’m not sure
I see it happening where there is lots of power in lots of wealth at stake. I
would love to be wrong of course.
Mary
Mary
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 25, 2018, at 9:31 AM, Evan Reese <mentat1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
There have been some peaceful revolutions. The ones in Eastern Europe
in
1989 come to mind. Not all of them panned out as well as they should have.
Romania is a good example of that, where the moderate wing of the
Communist party came out all right and became the new elite class. But
overall, they were peaceful revolutions. So they can and do happen.
Evan
-----Original Message----- From: Mary Otten
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2018 10:58 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: New member
Well, I am definitely very much to the left of center, especially what
passes for center in the United States today, on social and economic
issues. And I most definitely do not support the current economic system.
On the other hand, I can’t support violent revolution, although when
the doors to peaceful change are slammed shut, eventually, there will
be violence and it will not be pretty. I would much prefer peaceful change.
But people with a lot of power don’t tend to give it up easily, all
you have to do is look around at voter suppression attempts throughout
this country and various other shenanigans on the part of the party in
power in all three branches of th well, I am definitely very much to
the left of center, especially with passes for Center in the United
States today, on social and economic issues. And I most definitely do
not support the current economic system. On the other hand, I can’t
support violent revolution, although when the doors to peaceful change
are slammed shut, eventually, there will be violence and it will not
be pretty. I would much prefer peaceful change. But people with a lot
of power don’t tend to give it up easily, are you have to do is look
around at voter suppression at times throughout this country and
various other shenanigans on the part of the party in power in all three
branches of the federal government today.
Who was it that said power corrupts. And absolute power corrupts
absolutely? That seems to have been born out and all manner of systems
throughout history. The Soviet union. Communist China. Fascist Germany
and Italy. And certainly do United States of America today.
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 24, 2018, at 1:48 PM, Evan Reese <mentat1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I would like to add my voice to the welcomes, Mary.
I've seen you on other lists. You seem pretty tech savvy, which is cool.
I am also new here. I joined last week. On social issues I'm
definitely left of center, but on economic issues I'm in the center,
or maybe even a bit to the right. I support the current economic
system. I defend the "capitalist running dogs" around here. (Yes,
some people actually talked like that in the 20th century.
Fortunately, humanity has moved on since then. Mostly that is.)
Seriously though, I am more than happy to talk about shortcomings of
the current economic model and how to fix them, but I'm not interested in
revolution. I'm with John Lennon:
But when you talk about destruction,
Don'tcha know that you can count me out.
So once again, welcome. I hope you enjoy it here.
Evan
-----Original Message----- From: Carl Jarvis
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2018 11:50 AM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: New member
Hello and welcome, Mary.
If you have a natural curiosity and a sense of adventure, you've come
to the right list. We do try hard to stay on target and not fall
into name calling, as happens on the ACB chat list at times. But a
good sense of humor and a moderately thick skin, and you'll soon be
right at home.
As for me, besides being Carl Jarvis, I am a self proclaimed
Progressive, an Agnostic, and 83 years old. My wife and I provide
services to older blind and low vision folks on the Great Olympic
Peninsula, through our organization named, Peninsula Rehabilitation
Services. We've been at it almost 24 years and have worked with well
over 3,000 clients. I'm totally blind...for the past 55 years.
Cathy and I work as a team since living here in the deep, dark forest
does not allow a blind man the ability to travel to many of our
clients alone.
And just for the record, eating, sleeping, working, vacationing and
breathing the same air day after day finds us still deeply in love
with one another.
Carl Jarvis
(PS. Cathy's horse is down this morning. She's called the vet and
is trying to get him up and moving. I was going to buy a new
keyboard today, but it's looking as if I'll have to make do with
these sticky keys for a while longer.)
On 10/23/18, Miriam Vieni <miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hello Mary,
This list is suddenly becoming busy. We've acquired two new members
and will, I believe, be acquiring another one. It's an ill wind that
blows no good, they say. I do believe we can thank Mr. Trump for the
rejuvenation of this list. At any rate, I'll forward one of the Real
News Network digests to the list. It's a website which has excellent
little news videos that you can listen to and also, there's a text
of each one, I believe. I'll forward one of the digests. You go to
the heading of the story in which you're interested, which is also a
link, and then, you move down until you find a play button and press
enter. If you find the website, you can sign up for your own
digests. The website is in Baltimore. Its founder, Paul Jay, comes
from Canada, and it does national, international, and local Baltimore news.
Some of my favorite people are on there: max Blumenthal, Ben Norton,
Dean Baker, etc.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2018 8:44 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] New member
Hi folks,
I just joined this list, of whose existence I had no idea until a
friend forwarded me a book recommendation from one of the BARD
lists, where this list was mentioned. I recognize Miriam's name from
the bookshare list of many years ago. We liked lots of the same
books on political/historical topics. Anyway, I joined out of
curiosity to see what the list was like.
I've seen a couple posts, one of which mentioned the real news
network, with which I am not familiar. what is it?
Mary
