Thanks, Susan. Someone at one point complained that 3 went by too quickly for her, but I'll do that. Cindy --- On Sat, 5/28/11, Susan Lumpkin <slumpkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > From: Susan Lumpkin <slumpkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: What is Daisy? > To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Date: Saturday, May 28, 2011, 1:23 PM > I usually put three asterisks Cindy. > > > Susan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] > On Behalf Of Cindy > Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 3:05 PM > To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: What is Daisy? > > Thanks, Roger I read this after I responded to your earlier > post. Now I understand better why the headings have to > be as they are supposed to be. I still wonder ow many > asterisks are most desirable. Are 5 too many? 3 too > few? > Cindy > > > > --- On Sat, 5/28/11, Roger Loran Bailey <rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx> > wrote: > > > From: Roger Loran Bailey <rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx> > > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: What is Daisy? > > To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > Date: Saturday, May 28, 2011, 10:00 AM Cindy, Daisy > stands for digital > > accessible information system. It can be text, audio > or text and audio > > Daisy. It is a collection of files that work together > to allow for > > navigation through a book. That is, the intention is > to make the > > reading experience for blind people closer to that of > the sighted > > people. Personally, when I use a Daisy book I do > listen to them. I use > > the audio Daisy books from the NLS BARD site which are > recorded human > > voices and I use the Daisy books from Bookshare in > which case I listen > > to a synthetic voice read them, but if you are sighted > it should not > > be a problem to read them visually. > > Braille is another matter, though. I don't think Daisy > will work with > > Braille. You might want to take a look at the FAQ at > Open Library. > > They give an explanation of Daisy there and I think > there is a link to > > a site that is all about Daisy and should give an even > better > > explanation, but I have never actually bothered to > take a look at that > > site myself. > > > > > > _ _ _ > > > > "One of the things that is wrong with religion is that > it teaches us > > to be satisfied with answers which are not really > answers at all." - > > Richard Dawkins > > > > Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rogerbailey81 > > > > > > The Militant: > > http://www.themilitant.com > > Pathfinder Press: > > http://www.pathfinderpress.com > > Granma International: > > http://www.granma.cu/ingles/index.html > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cindy" <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx> > > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > > Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 5:26 PM > > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] What is Daisy? > > > > > > > > I'm a little late in asking this question. smile. I've > assumed people > > who use a Daisy reader listen to the books. > > What is a Daisy standard, and how does it differ from > what Braille > > readers need? I'd like to make my proofs easy for both > groups. > > Cindy > > > > Whoever has time to answer this question cAN explain > to me offlist > > > > --- On Fri, 5/27/11, Scott Rains <scottr@xxxxxxxxxxxx> > > wrote: > > > > > From: Scott Rains <scottr@xxxxxxxxxxxx> > > > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: bolds, italics, > > ellipses > > > To: "bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" > > <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > > > Date: Friday, May 27, 2011, 12:12 PM Hi All, > > > > > > My public apology to Mayrie for posting a note > that I intended to be > > > private. For the record, Mayrie's grasp of the > > technical > > > and policy world > > > we work in is top-notch. I count on her knowledge > to > > guide > > > me. The advice > > > she gives you here on the list is sound. > > > > > > On this particular issue, as with several others, > we balance what > > > you might call "multiple jurisdictions." What you > see in > > the > > > manual reflects > > > that balancing act. We use the manual to lay down > the baseline so > > > that this group can mentor new volunteers on the > trickier points. > > > > > > Bookshare is being visited this week by the > person > > who > > > oversees our > > > federal government contract to add textbooks to > the collection. She > > > is full of praise for the combined work of > volunteers > > and > > > staff. She > > > explicitly mentioned that she, and others in > > government > > > agencies, have > > > noticed the improved quality of our books over > the > > past > > > five years. That > > > is a credit to each of you. It also means that > we > > have > > > several audiences > > > to please on issues that do not always have neat > > answers. > > > > > > Sometimes standards of quality conflict. We try > to > > balance. > > > Some technical > > > solutions that are the best for members are not > > supported > > > by readers' > > > software or hardware yet. Sometimes what works > best > > in > > > Braille is less > > > elegant in RTF or vice versa. When we are faced > with conflicting or > > > emerging standards we defer to the DAISY > standard. > > That is > > > what we ask the > > > publishing industry to do. In the absence of a > DAISY standard, > > > keeping I mind the current limits of readers and > AT, we try to > > find a > > > balance that > > > does not put a burden on proofreaders yet also > meets > > the > > > needs members. > > > > > > The manual evolves. Part of the way it does so > is > > with > > > discussions like > > > these. > > > > > > Scott > > > > > > On 5/27/11 9:27 AM, "Debby Franson" <the.bee@xxxxxxxxxxxx> > > > wrote: > > > > > > >Hi Scott and everyone! > > > > > > > >I agree that the manual isn't giving > optional > > > information. I just wish > > > >the > > > >manual was updated to agree with > transcribing > > rules so > > > these discussions > > > >wouldn't have to come up again and again so > that > > > instructions given onlist > > > >and in the manual would agree. When new > > > volunteers come aboard, the > > > >discussions fly through the list again. I > > > appreciate it that we > > > >volunteers > > > >want to do the right thing so that the books > will > > be > > > well-formatted and > > > >accurate. > > > > > > > >I hope readers have a good reading experience > no > > matter > > > what method is > > > >chosen for reading. > > > > > > > >Debby > > > > > > > >At 04:59 PM 5/25/2011, Scott Rains wrote > > > >>Mayrie, > > > >> > > > >>Let me rein you in on a point below. > > > >> > > > >>We never want to be telling people that > the > > manual > > > is giving optional > > > >>activities that aren't required. Bold > and > > italic, > > > like font size, are > > > >>required. > > > >> > > > >>They may be required for different > reasons. > > Font > > > size is what DAISY > > > >>navigates on so is technically required > for > > > navigation. Italics are most > > > >>often in the book so required as part of > our > > > adherence to retaining the > > > >>integrity of the publisher's > intellectual > > property. > > > Bold may be that or > > > >>it > > > >>may be a way to imitate some of the font > and > > > kerning variations of a > > > >>print > > > >>book as a reading aid for sighted > readers. > > > >> > > > >>This is sort of the flip side of the > > conversation > > > we had recently when > > > >>you > > > >>asked me not to announce a change in the > > manual. > > > >> > > > >>scott > > > >> > > > >>On 5/21/11 12:27 PM, "Mayrie ReNae" > <mayrierenae@xxxxxxxxx> > > > wrote: > > > >> > > > >> >Hi Charisma, > > > >> > > > > >> >Oh, boy. I'm going to copy a section > on > > > the ellipsis that is our > > > >>standard > > > >> >for handling them so that they > represent > > > properly in braille. This is > > > >>what > > > >> >Bookshare would like you to do, > please. > > I'll > > > paste it below my > > > >>signature. > > > >> >And then I'll save a copy for > myself, > > because > > > it's going to be a pain > > > >>in > > > >> >the > > > >> >neck to copy here from the braille > book > > that I > > > have it in that tells > > > >>how > > > >> >to > > > >> >format braille properly. Tell me > that > > > you love me, because I have to > > > >>read > > > >> >with two hands, remember enough to > type, > > type > > > it and go back and read > > > >>some > > > >> >more. But all of your questions > about > > > how to handle the ellipsis will > > > >>be > > > >> >answered! > > > >> > > > > >> >As for bold, it does not denote > headings, > > the > > > enlarged size > > > >> >Of the font does that. The bolding > is > > > helpful, and we like it, but it > > > >> >isn't > > > >> >required. So you needn't go back and > fix > > them > > > if you don't want to. > > > >> >Bookshare does not require that you > keep > > > either bold or italics. That > > > >> >said, > > > >> >as a reader yourself, with the > ability > > to > > > perceive italics, would you > > > >> >personally prefer to have it in > there? > > > Many do, some people don't > > > >>care. > > > >> >My > > > >> >advice, leave what you've done be > for > > this > > > book, call it a learning > > > >> >experience, and don't remove the > italics > > in > > > future books. Torture is > > > >>not > > > >> >the name of the game here, and I > know > > that > > > there are lots of books from > > > >> >which italics have been removed by > folks > > who > > > didn't know they mattered. > > > >> > > > > >> >Okay, I'm going to paste/type below > the > > > information on how to properly > > > >> >handle the ellipsis. > > > >> > > > > >> >Mayrie > > > >> > > > > >> >The ellipsis should be punctuated as > if > > it > > > were a word. Examples: > > > >> >"Fools rush in ..." > > > >> > > > > >> >"... for they shall inherit the > earth" > > > >> > "Breathe, Mellissa. In ... and out. > In > > ... > > > >> >and out." > > > >> >An ellipsis and a period. Sometimes > an > > > ellipsis appears to be four > > > >>dots > > > >> >rather than three. This is because > the > > > ellipsis is either preceded or > > > >> >followed by a period. Since the > braille > > period > > > is not the same as the > > > >>dots > > > >> >of an ellipsis, it must be > determined > > which of > > > the four dots is the > > > >> >period. > > > >> > > > > >> >If the sentence is incomplete, does > not > > > contain a subject and a verb > > > >>and > > > >> >express a complete thought, then > the > > ellipsis > > > is taking the place of > > > >> >missing > > > >> >words within the sentence--in which > the > > period > > > immediately follows the > > > >> >ellipsis, just as it would a word. > If a > > > sentence is gramatically > > > >>complete, > > > >> >the first dot represents the period > and > > the > > > ellipsis represents a > > > >> >following > > > >> >missing sentence or sentences. In > this > > case a > > > blank cell (a space) is > > > >>left > > > >> >between the period and the > following > > > ellipsis. > > > >> >Example: > > > >> >As you can see, I have followed > your > > career. > > > ... As to my own .... > > > >>Well, > > > >> >you > > > >> >know the story. > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> >-----Original Message----- > > > >> >From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > >> >[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] > > > On Behalf Of Charisma > > > >> >Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 11:24 > AM > > > >> >To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > >> >Subject: [bksvol-discuss] bolds, > > italics, > > > ellipses > > > >> > > > > >> >In the book I just scanned, from > which I > > > erroneously erased all italics > > > >> >and > > > >> >bolds, the bolds were found in the > > glossary, > > > for each new word. > > > >> > > > > >> >Ought I to have left those bolds? I > > thought > > > anything that was in bold > > > >> >indicated to the converter that that > was > > a > > > heading? Of course, in this > > > >> >case, > > > >> >perhaps each new word in the > glossary > > ought to > > > be it's own heading? I > > > >> >already had the beginning of the > Glossary > > at > > > font point 16. > > > >> >I wonder now if I ought to have made > each > > word > > > in the glossary font > > > >>point > > > >> >14, each word a subheading. > > > >> > > > > >> >OK, and since I erased every last > italic > > in > > > this 255+ page book, ought > > > >>I > > > >> >to > > > >> >go back and replace them all? I > will > > because I > > > want the book to be > > > >>perfect > > > >> >but do I NEED to? (can you guess how > I > > am > > > hoping? lol) > > > >> > > > > >> >Finally, ellipses. I have a > question > > > about your experiences. All > > > >>ellipses > > > >> >in these examples are three dots, > not > > spaces > > > between them. On my Victor > > > >> >Reader Stream, Set-up #1 If there is > a > > > word, then an ellipsis right up > > > >> >against it, then a space, then the > next > > word, > > > it reads fine; I never > > > >>know > > > >> >there is an ellipsis there. > > > >> >Set-up #2 If there is a word, then > a > > space, > > > then the ellipsis, then a > > > >> >space, > > > >> >then the next word, I hear" dot dot > > dot". > > > >> >Set-up #3 If there is a word and > either > > a > > > space or no space, then an > > > >> >ellipsis then no space then the > next > > word, if > > > that next word has an > > > >> >apostrophe it will not read > properly. > > That is, > > > if the ellipsis pushes > > > >>up > > > >> >against the word God's (like this > > ",,,God's"), > > > my reader will read > > > >>that as > > > >> >"dot dot dot God s" > > > >> > > > > >> >I cannot remember which book it was > that > > was > > > doing this so I can't > > > >> >doublecheck it in Victor Reader Soft > but > > I am > > > pretty sure these > > > >>problems > > > >> >are > > > >> >the same in there. > > > >> > > > > >> >My TextAloud does not care as far as > #3 > > > goes--it does not neglect > > > >> >apostrophes. > > > >> > > > > >> >Also, hate hate hate four dot > ellipses. > > Period > > > OR ellipsis, author > > > >>people, > > > >> >not period AND ellipsis. I made an > > executive > > > decision and made half 4 > > > >>dot > > > >> >and half 3 dot int eh 255+ page book > I > > just > > > did. Which shall I fix? > > > >> > > > > >> >Charisma > > > >> > To unsubscribe from this list send > a > > blank > > > Email to > > > >> >bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > >> >put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself > in > > the > > > subject line. To get a > > > >>list > > > >> >of > > > >> >available commands, put the word > 'help' > > by > > > itself in the subject line. > > > >> > > > > >> > To unsubscribe from this list send > a > > blank > > > Email to > > > >> >bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > >> >put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself > in > > the > > > subject line. To get a > > > >>list > > > >> >of available commands, put the word > > 'help' by > > > itself in the subject > > > >>line. > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > >>¢éì¹»®&Þ~º&¶¬Â+-±éà > i¹ZžA&j)m¡¹,¾‰]Å > > > >>Ç.²Êު笵úÞzX¬¶Ê+‚›Â¶°¢·nžË›±ÊâmæòŠ> > >>Û•ø > > > > > >>§¶¬¹¸ÞrÙb äè > ëZÂ+-¡ö¯j)ZnWϢiÅ¡Â > Û)ºÛa{ > > > > > > >>+v¥¥¼¢¶Ç¥~)Ã…ë.n7ϦX§ > > > > > > > >-- > > > > > > > > > > >mailto:<the.bee@xxxxxxxxxxxx> > > > >-- > > > > > > > >Enjoy what you have rather than desiring what > you > > don't > > > have. Just > > > >dreaming > > > >about nice things is meaningless; it is like > > chasing > > > the > > > >wind.--Ecclesiastes 6:9 NLT > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this list send a blank > Email > > to > > > >bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > >put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the > > subject > > > line. To get a list > > > >of available commands, put the word 'help' > by > > itself in > > > the subject line. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > N‹§²æìr¸›yúèšØb²X¬¶Ç§u¦åjy™¨¥¶†ä²ú%v+ºË+z«ž²×ëyéb²Û(® > > > > > > n¶Ø^Šݺ{.nÇ+‰·›Ê+lzWâžØ^²æãyËeŠw“¢jX¬¶‡Ú½¨¥i¹^r‰¦jwl¦ëm…ì(Ø^––òŠÛ•ø > > §¶¬¹¸ÞrÙb To unsubscribe from this list > send a blank Email to > > bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject > line. To get a > > list of available commands, put the word 'help' by > itself in the > > subject line. > > > > To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to > > bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject > line. To get a > > list of available commands, put the word 'help' by > itself in the > > subject line. > > > > > To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to > bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject > line. To get a list of available commands, put the > word 'help' by itself in the subject line. > > To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to > bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject > line. To get a list of available commands, put the > word 'help' by itself in the subject line. > > To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a list of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line.