[bksvol-discuss] Page breaks missing
- From: Grandma Cindy <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 22:42:53 -0700 (PDT)
I'm curious, Evan. Do you remember what the book was
that you submitted that didn't have page breaks? Was
it a Western?
I've validated at least two books in that condition,
and I put the page breaks in. In one case, perhaps
both, I did check to see who submitted the book. When
I come across a book that has problems like that, if
it was submitted by someone who is on the list and who
tries and who seems nice I fix them. If a book has the
same problems and other scannos but is by a bookshare
volunteer or someone I know doesn't care, I'll reject
it.
Cindy
--- Evan Reese <mentat1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> You could BSO them if it is really nagging at you.
> <grin>. You wouldn't even
> have to rescan them if you still have the original
> files, and the original
> books if you want to make certain to avoid any
> mistakes.
>
> Unfortunately, the first book I submitted didn't
> even have page breaks, let
> alone page numbers. I always used to take them out
> when reading through my
> scans before joining Bookshare, thinking them
> unnecessary in an electronic
> file. This was January 2006, after the policy about
> page breaks being
> required was instituted; but I was unaware of it,
> and whoever validated my
> book either was also unaware of it, or just didn't
> bother to look or didn't
> care; and the staff - Gustavo at the time -
> apparently didn't check either -
> relying on the validator's good judgment, I guess. I
> could resubmit it with
> the page breaks intact - since I still have the
> original book and the
> original file - but I keep procrastinating. Other
> than missing page breaks
> and page numbers, the text quality is great, since I
> read through all of it.
> I would have to add nearly 600 of them, along with
> the page numbers, looking
> through the book and finding where each page ends. I
> keep thinking that I
> should redo it, but there are so many other books I
> want to do; and my
> standards are a lot higher now than they were then -
> having developed a
> serious case of Deranged Perfectionism. So I just
> don't think about it too
> much. <smile>. Maybe someday....
>
> I did do a BSO of one of my own books last year
> because it had hard returns
> at the end of every line of print, and I was not
> aware - or it wasn't up on
> Jake's site at the time - of the method for
> eliminating them while not
> losing those at the ends of paragraphs. I have read
> that tip since then, but
> I still don't think I understand it.
>
> I think many of us here have early submissions that
> would be inconceivable
> to put up now. I thought I was doing a great job at
> the time, but my
> standards have evolved over time, just as
> Bookshare's standards have
> improved. I don't know whether I want to go back and
> redo every book from
> back then, even though I know that they don't meet
> my standards of today.
>
> At the same time, I do want to encourage people to
> do a better job with
> their submissions than I started out doing because I
> have a better sense of
> all the different ways these books may be read and
> therefore why it is
> important to keep them as authentic to the printed
> version as possible.
>
> In other words, if you know you're doing the best
> job you can now, unless
> the old books are unreadable, I would concentrate on
> what you're doing now
> to add books to the collection.
>
> Evan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Julia Kulak" <julia.kulak@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 11:37 AM
> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Page Numbers
>
>
> > Wow! That was a wonderful story, can I frame it,
> smile. Is there anything
> > I can do about all the poor little books I
> submitted that had no page
> > numbers?
> > Julia
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Estelnalissi" <airadil@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 4:27 PM
> > Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Page Numbers
> >
> >
> >> Dear Allison,
> >>
> >> You are in a fix because you say your scanner
> can't pick up the page
> >> numbers. Most of us are blind and would have the
> same problem with your
> >> book that's nipping at you. I'm so glad you're on
> this list where we can
> >> answer your questions and direct you to helpful
> resources.
> >>
> >> Miraculously, Grand Cindy and Jamie Yates have
> made a hobby of helping
> >> us with books that confuse our scanners In your
> place, those like me who
> >> don't have handy or willing local sighted help,
> ask Cindy or Jamie.
> >>
> >> Here's how they can help you. If you tell them
> the name and ISBN of your
> >> book, they'll check with multiple libraries and
> contact you when they
> >> pick up the book that's giving you trouble. They
> can tell you where to
> >> place the page one. Then, they can tell you if
> any pages are missing or
> >> skipped.
> >>
> >> Unless there's an insert of photographs or
> unnumbered pages throughout
> >> the book, after you know where page one is, you
> just put the page numbers
> >> in order on the second line of each page. You'd
> leave the top line blank,
> >> then write the page number on the left margin.
> Then leave another blank
> >> line and after that the text would start. I think
> you already know to
> >> leave a blank line after the last line of text at
> the bottom of the page,
> >> too.
> >>
> >> I have a masters and taught for 27 years. Books
> without pages gave me
> >> fits, frustrating me in studying or preparing
> lessons and wasting so much
> >> time I couldn't afford.
> >>
> >> Now, I use page numbers to measure my progress
> and in book discussion
> >> groups with sighted readers, to find pages they
> are referring to. Without
> >> page numbers, instead of interrupting the
> discussions to ask members to
> >> help me find the place, I just sit quietly when
> everyone turns to page
> >> 127 because I know by the time I find it page, if
> I find it, they'll have
> >> moved on to another point in the book or in the
> conversation.
> >>
> >> I lose track of how long newer members have been
> on the list. It's about
> >> 2 and a half years for me.
> >>
> >> I remember when Bud was a new volunteer. He's not
> trying to pick on you
> >> when he encourages you to put in those page
> numbers. He endured the same
> >> sequence of shocks as he learned the finer points
> of submitting good
> >> scans. He is primarily if not completely, a
> scanner.
> >>
> >> When he learned that to protect page numbers and
> chapter heads we have to
> >> leave a blank line above and below each page
> number he wrote something
> >> like, "You mean I have to put in all of those
> blank lines and page
> >> numbers by hand? That's going to add hours!" He
> may even have mentioned
> >> about needing a little comfort beverage to get
> over this new demand on
> >> his time!
> >>
> >> Forgive me, Bud, if I have this wrong. I'm going
> by memory and you went
> >> through this ages ago.
> >>
> >> Back to my story. There was a lapse of days until
> we heard from Bud
> >> again. he'd been a great, upbeat, gentlemanly
> addition to the list and I
> >> worried if the added work to preparing his
> submission would be the end of
> >> his volunteering. Then one day, he wrote one of
> his welcome announcements
> >> that he had a new book ready for our validating
> pleasure. Pointedly he
> >> announced., "All of the page numbers are present
> and I have left a blank
> >> line before and after each one."
> >>
> >> I grinned all over my face and drank a toast of
> diet pop to him!
> >>
> >> I have the very good fortune of validating for
> several superior scanners.
> >> One of them put a book on step one for me whose
> text was perfect. I was
> >> shocked to see weird stuff for page numbers and
> questions which were
> >> supposed to be numbered without numbers in it.
> Since this was the first
> >> book ever of over 30 books from her with this
> problem I messaged her
> >> asking what happened. She admitted she just
> couldn't get them to come
> >> out. She hoped I could make more since of the
> scrambled clues which were
> >> all she had to give. We work together so much
> that I knew she'd
> >> understand when I asked her to take her book back
> for a few weeks and
> >> store it on her step 2 page while I ordered a
> copy of her book from
> >> Amazon. We knew Bookshare would accept the book
> without the numbers, but
> >> we also new another member was likely to BSO it,
> and then she'd get a
> >> notice from Bookshare that her book was replaced
> by a better copy, better
> >> because someone would have taken it to put in the
> page numbers.
> >>
> >> My copy has come now, and though using my one
> seeing eye gives me
> >> headaches, I use it when I must, with lots of
> magnification. The page
> >> numbers were missing because they were written in
> really pale ink, so
> >> light I think the scanner didn't pick them up.
> The question numbers were
> >> missing because each one was inside a white star
> which was itself inside
> >> a black ball. I also used a duplicate copy to get
> the chapter headers for
> >> another of my friends whose scans are wonderful.
> It turned out these were
> >> in cursive writing! What a pain...but entirely
> worth it.
> >>
> >> Sometimes When I'm validating, I can't figure out
> problems I encounter.
> >> Then I have to hold the book while Cindy or Jamie
> gets a copy and helps
> >> me out off list.
> >>
> >> Unless a validator uses an opticon or has a
> better scanner than yours,
> >> they probably can't figure out problems that your
> scanner can't see. So,
> >> either you or the validator calls on Cindy and
> works on other projects
> >> until they can help. I wonder just how many
> different volunteers they've
> >> assisted?
> >>
> >> Cindy? Jamie? Have you counted?
> >>
> >> We all have different reading styles and some of
> us use page numbers more
> >> than others. Jill, E, Grand Cindy, Jane, Maithe,
> the guys, and I am
> >> explaining the whys and hows of part of the
> process that most new
> >> volunteers have to learn. Sooner than you can
> imagine, you'll be the one
> >> explaining it.
> >>
> >> You are the same Allison who was at the
> interesting nonfiction book
> >> meeting, aren't you? You suggested several
> interesting books. I've
> >> downloaded the Glass Castle and another person
> who was there downloaded
> >> another of the books you mentioned. I'm looking
> forward to discussing the
> >> social aspects of the Grimms' fairy tales with
> you at our next meeting.
> >> Don't expect me to recall any of the crowds of
> Germans the author quotes.
> >> I don't even try to pronounce those names, let
> alone remember them.
> >>
> >> Always with love,
> >>
> >> Lissi
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Allison" <bookshare_girl@xxxxxxx>
> >> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 6:04 PM
> >> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Page Numbers
> >>
> >>
> >>> Evan wrote:
> >>> "There will likely always be a minority
> >>>> of submitters and/or validators who don't care
> about future readers..."
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Evan,
> >>> please don't imply that I don't care about
> future readers. I do. I
> >>> don't feel that was a very nice thing to say.
> >>> You may remember, that I offered you the chance
> to put in my page
> >>> numbers, but you declined saying you were just
> too busy. Well then, if
> >>> you
> >>> won't take the time to put in page numbers
> either, please don't complain
> >>> or
> >>> say that the rest of us just don't care.
> >>>
> >>> Allison
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Evan Reese" <mentat1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>> Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 2:17 PM
> >>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Page Numbers
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> It does appear that a consensus is emerging:
> Keep page numbers, or add
> >>>> them if they do not scan properly. There will
> likely always be a
> >>>> minority
> >>>> of submitters and/or validators who don't care
> about future readers,
> >>>> but I
> >>>> am glad to see such a preponderance of posters
> in favor of maintaining
> >>>> page number integrity.
> >>>>
> >>>> Evan
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: "E." <thoth93@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>> To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>> Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 1:22 PM
> >>>> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Page Numbers
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> If somebody uses a fiction book as part of a
> paper they need to refer
> >>>>> to
> >>>>> page numbers in a term paper or thesis.
> Please keep page numbers.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> E.
> >>>>> At 02:05 PM 10/8/2007, you wrote:
> >>>>>>This is news to me that page numbers are "not"
> required. When
> >>>>>>eliminating
> >>>>>>the headings on pages that have been scanned,
> it would make my job
> >>>>>>much
> >>>>>>easier if I did not have to preserve the page
> numbers. This would mean
> >>>>>>a
> >>>>>>book without page numbers. I just started
> eliminating the headings,
> >>>>>>since
> >>>>>>most people want them removed prior to
> uploading. With fiction I could
> >>>>>>see that people would like to read and not be
> interrupted by page
> >>>>>>numbers. So what is the consensus here?
> Should I leave the page
> >>>>>>numbers
> >>>>>>in or out?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Jim Nuttall--Michigan
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>----- Original Message ----
> >>>>>>From: Bud Schwab <budschwab@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>>To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>Sent: Monday, October 8, 2007 12:07:50 PM
> >>>>>>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Page Numbers
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Hi Allison,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>I don't do validating, I just scan and submit.
> I've never had a book
> >>>>>>that had no page numbers at all fortunately.
> I just put in numbers
> >>>>>>where they are missing for some reason. Since
> they're not required
> >>>>>>as yet I suppose the validator doesn't have to
> add them either.
> >>>>>>Best.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>BudAt 10:59 PM 10/7/2007, you wrote:
> >>>>>> >Evan or Bud, I'll have my book ready to
> submit in a day or so. I'm
> >>>>>> >pre-validating it, correcting errors and
> such, but not putting page
> >>>>>> >numbers in. But since you say that you, as
> careful scanners and
> >>>>>> >validaters, always put page numbers in by
> hand, I'm asking you,
> >>>>>> >would you like to put the page numbers in my
> book? You're welcome
> >>>>>> >to it. I would be happy to put "hold for
> one of you" in the title
> >>>>>> >when I submit it.
> >>>>>> >
> >>>>>> >Best,
> >>>>>> >Allison
> >>>>>> >
> >>>>>> >
> >>>>>> >
> >>>>>> >----- Original Message ----- From: "Evan
> Reese"
> >>>>>> ><mentat1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>> >To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>> >Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 8:39 PM
> >>>>>> >Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Page Numbers
> >>>>>> >
> >>>>>> >
> >>>>>> >>I should have said that that's what I and
> other careful scanners
> >>>>>> >>and validators do. Didn't mean to diss
> scanners - especially since
> >>>>>> >>I do more scanning than validating myself.
> <grin>
> >>>>>> >>
> >>>>>> >>Evan
> >>>>>> >>
> >>>>>> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Evan
> Reese"
> >>>>>> >><mentat1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>> >>To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>> >>Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 7:56 PM
> >>>>>> >>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Page Numbers
> >>>>>> >>
> >>>>>> >>
> >>>>>> >>>Yup, that's what I do and what other
> careful validators do.
> >>>>>> >>>
> >>>>>> >>>Evan
> >>>>>> >>>
> >>>>>> >>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Julia
> Kulak"
> >>>>>> <julia.kulak@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>> >>>To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>> >>>Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 6:11 AM
> >>>>>> >>>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Page Numbers
> >>>>>> >>>
> >>>>>> >>>
> >>>>>> >>>>Hmmm, so if your scanner just refuses to
> get them most of the
> >>>>>> >>>>time you ad them in manually?
> >>>>>> >>>>Julia
> >>>>>> >>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Jane
> Dickison"
> >>>>>> >>>><janebiz@xxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>> >>>>To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>> >>>>Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 2:33 PM
> >>>>>> >>>>Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Page Numbers
> >>>>>> >>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>Hi Everybody,
> >>>>>> >>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>I know we've been batting this page
> numbers thing back and
> >>>>>> >>>>>forth, but I think the page numbers
> should become more important
> >>>>>> >>>>>because we are probably going to have a
> lot more students
> >>>>>> >>>>>downloading for school. An educator
> might ask them to read any
> >>>>>> >>>>>of our books. Having the page number
> would make it easier for
> >>>>>> >>>>>her to make reference points.
> >>>>>> >>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>OK.....Start throwing those tomatoes.
> >>>>>> >>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>>Jane D.
> >>>>>> >>>>>To unsubscribe from this list send a
> blank Email to
> >>>>>> >>>>>bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>> >>>>>put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in
> the subject line. To
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> >>>>>> >>>>>in the subject line.
> >>>>>> >>>>
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> >>>>>> >>>
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> >>>>>> >>>
> >>>>>> >>
> >>>>>> >>To unsubscribe from this list send a blank
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> >>>>>> >>put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the
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> >>>>>> >
> >>>>>> >To unsubscribe from this list send a blank
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> 'help' by itself in the
> >>>>>> subject line.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Bud Schwab
> >>>>>>W 6 Z Y P
> >>>>>>Malibu, California
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>To unsubscribe from this list send a blank
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> >>>>>
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> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
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> >>>>
> >>>>
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> >>>
> >>>
> >>
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> >
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> >
> >
> >
>
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