[bksvol-discuss] Re: BAEN BOOKS
- From: "Pratik Patel" <pratikp1@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 16:48:03 -0500
Hello,
Kurzweil doesn't conform to some of the print standards like other word
processors do. Most words process assume a 8.5"X by 11 page with a 1 inch
margin around the border. Kurzweil doesn't use those constraints. That is
the primary reason why you see a level of consistency in other word
processors even when soft page breaks are present.
As to ISBN's, I'm seeing certain publishers such as pragmatic programmers
(www.pragprog.com) use separate ISBN's for their electronic books. Most
others use ISBN's for their print books. O'Reilly and their partners come
to mind.
Pratik
-----Original Message-----
From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of talmage@xxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 3:46 PM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: BAEN BOOKS
Hey Guido,
Once these discussions get started I frequently find out more about a
topic than I really want to know.
Case in point I was looking into the subject of ISBNs. While I knew
that they've been around since the early 70's, I wasn't aware that
they were primarily a commercial tracking tool like bar codes are. I
guess I thought they were more along the lines of copyright
protection and registration. One thing I ascertained however, is
that while an e-text could have an ISBN, it probably wouldn't, as we
are still in the early stages of electronic publishing, and
bookstores etc. wouldn't have a need to order an e-text version by ISBN.
Regarding Baen's e-text books, I would argue that as it is a
commercially available copyrighted work presented by the publisher,
it is its own unique edition and the ISBNs referenced are not for
that version, but rather reflect those of the print edition. In many
books you will see multiple ISBNs referring to books other than the
one in hand.
As for the soft page breaks, I'm not sure what the deal is with
Kurzweil, as the 3 separate programs I loaded a Baen rtf file into
all reflected the same number of pages in accordance with the page
and margins as set forth in the RTF by Baen.
I guess a couple of the reasons I am turning into such a strong
advocate of pulling these RTF files into the collection are partly
what you stated about the publishers and their typical source
files. It certainly is unusual for a publisher to have RTF files
available, and you're right most of their books are in a mark up
language that if not proprietary, it at least is not a run of the
mill one, making it annoying to figure out what the control codes
indicate. Another reason I have is the same as one Jim mentioned the
other day, that while something is available today, it may not be
forever. What is that saying, something like, "opportunity missed is
"opportunity lost.
Dave
At 01:46 PM 1/10/2008, you wrote:
>Thank you Dave. The problem is that soft breaks are induced by the
>word processing package and do not correspond to physical page
>breaks in the print copy matching the ISBN in the file. In
>particular, the book 1812 I have been examining has approx 250
>pages on Kurzweil K1K, 450 pages on MS Word. Yet Amazon indicates
>the print copy to have 560 pages. I venture that Bookshare staff
>may source Baen book files directly from the publisher 'en masse' in
>the most suitable formats, and may process them uniformly. It is
>worth pointing out that publishers usually print from specialized
>files formats containing page breaks aligned to print copies,
>although these print-ready files are not consumer-friendly and are
>usually deemed to
>be a private/confidential intellectual property of the publisher and
>are as such not for sale or public distribution.
>
>G.
>
>
>
>Guido Dante Corona
>IBM Research,
>Human Ability & Accessibility Center, (HA&AC)
>Austin Tx.
>Phone: 512. 838. 9735.
>Email: guidoc@xxxxxxxxxxx
>Web: <http://www.ibm.com/able>http://www.ibm.com/able
>
>". . . Maybe it was only those who were most certain they were right
>who were guaranteed to be wrong. And that maybe, just maybe, those
>who questioned the most were in the end those who came closest to being
wise."
>[David Poyer, The Command]
>
>
>
>talmage@xxxxxxxxxx
>Sent by: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>01/10/2008 11:10 AM
>Please respond to
>bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
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>Subject
>[bksvol-discuss] Re: BAEN BOOKS
>
>
>
>
>Pratik,
>
>You're not differing from my point, you're changing the issue
>altogether. My difficulty is not with page demarcations, but the
>decimal value 13 embedded in a file as a sacrosanct character. There
>are other indicators, and ways of knowing that you've moved from page
>12 to page 13 without a decimal 13.
>Regarding the citation and discussion issue, if you are citing a
>source, you indicate copyright, edition, etc. So if you're citing an
>electronic version you so annotate, and indicate where it can be found.
>My concern here is that we are becoming slaves to minutia. The files
>we are perusing here aren't the database at The Center For Disease
>Control. No one is going to die because the font isn't quite right,
>or there is a page break only every 2 pages, and yes I should note I
>said page break not demarcation.
>As for adding the Baen books to the collection, I think it's a shame
>to schlep them off on the staff when all the e-text versions need, is
>for the soft breaks to be replaced by hard breaks. It would seem to
>me that the books from O'Reilly and Gutenberg would be a better focus
>for the staff, as neither of their's are already in RTF, rather than
>the Baen books which are. If the staff gathered all the Baen
>offerings, and placed them on the Step 1 page, it would be a simple
>matter for the volunteers to go through and put hard breaks where the
>soft breaks are. For that matter, as far as the gathering goes, I
>would be willing to collect them all and submit them on CD or DVD.
>
>Dave
>
>At 10:11 AM 1/10/2008, you wrote:
> >Dave,
> >
> >I beg to differ. Page breaks, or better yet, page demarcation, is used
in
> >the academic area (or anywhere) for citation purposes. Page breaks (or
> >control characters thereof) weren't only invented for printing purposes.
> >They are there so that intelligent conversations can reference correct
> >pages. The emphasis on correct page breaks or pagination is absolutely
> >essential for books so long as the sighted world continues to use the
> >system. Whether or not this should be the case is an entirely different
> >question.
> >
> >As to the Baen books being scanned or added to the collection by
> >Bookshare.org automatically--I'll say this. I'm sure Bookshare has all
the
> >intentions to process these books in a quick manner. But, until that
> >happens, I'll continue to advocate that volunteers continue to scan books
> >that they want to see in the collection immediately.
> >
> >Pratik
>
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