Thanks everybody for the replies. There were several problems. First, it looks like Astro-Tech has some offset in the spider and the spider was 90 degrees off. Second, was more of my problem. Astro-Tech uses a secondary that can be adjusted in all 3 axis at one time - Secondary tilt, rotation and up and down positioning of the secondary. The two Dob's I have (18" Obsession and old Orion 6") use Novak like secondary's and spiders. You can only adjust 2 axis at one time. I suppose adjusting 3 at one time was too much for me to handle. When the scope arrived the secondary was positioned too high with respect to the focuser, tilted to one side quite a bit and rotated. Third, the alignment screws for the primary were screwed too far in and the springs couldn't put enough tension on the primary mirror cell to really adjust it. The alignment is much better now but not perfect. I will play with it later today and try to get it exact. I may replace the secondary assembly with a Protostar unit later. This will improve overall functionality and I don't like anything plastic in my scopes. Jim -----Original Message----- From: az-observing-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:az-observing-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jim Waters Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 5:56 PM To: AZ-Observing@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; EVAC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx; sac-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Cc: james.t.waters@xxxxxxx Subject: [AZ-Observing] Need Help Aligning An Astro-Tech 8" f4 Newt List; I received an Astro-Tech 8" F4 (AT8IN) scope earlier this week. It was badly out of alignment when it arrived and I am having problems getting everything to line up. I have tried my laser collimator and cheshire eyepiece with no luck. The images reflect the alignment problem. It's like I haven't collimated a Newtonian before. I have had an 18" Obsession for ~15 years. I have called Astronomics and they can offer no advice. They say these scopes are aligned at the factory. With the secondary not even reflecting light from the primary I disagree. Can somebody in the greater Phoenix area assist me? Jim Waters SAC/EVAC -- See message header for info on list archives or unsubscribing, and please send personal replies to the author, not the list. -- See message header for info on list archives or unsubscribing, and please send personal replies to the author, not the list.