Stan, I actually did speak to members of a committee here in Maricopa and using all the information from the IDA site, convinced them to adopt the stricter light pollution ordinances from Pima county. That seemed to work for e. Several of the committee members were skeptical, even hostile at first, but IDA's arguments alone swayed them. Granted, Maricopa is not Phoenix, but I've made my point. Just as you made mine about trolling. Steve Dodder Coordinator, Grand Canyon Star Party, North Rim Chairman, SAC Novice Group Director, Stone Haven Observatory sdodder@xxxxxxxxxxx Visit my web site at http://www.stonehavenobservatory.com -- See message header for info on list archives or unsubscribing, and please send personal replies to the author, not the list.