Reg: Valid point... and an example of the kind of issue that arises in the assessment of use of serifs etc and their effect on comprehension. In a case like this, there's clearly an understanding and comprehension problem. Work back from that (as you clearly did) and you find its causes lie in font characteristics. That procedure is clearly valid, and useful. Less likely to be valid, and more likely to be a waste of time, is the analysis of issues to do with font formats ("readability" or "legibility") followed by generalised conclusions that they must affect comprehension, or that they automatically support a preference of one font style over another. For a start, the latter approach ignores the amazing ability of the human brain to handle visual ambiguities in the everyday world. More importantly, that approach also involves a logical fallacy: we just don't know small font variations affect comprehension until we test the comprehension! You had a classic comprehension test... and worked back to its cause. That's logical. -Peter M ----- Original Message ----- From: "rh" <zut@xxxxxxxxxxx> To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Monday, 2 August, 2010 7:12:35 PM GMT +10:00 Canberra / Melbourne / Sydney Subject: atw: Re: Literature Review: Serif or Sans Serif Typefaces? Hi Peter, Thanks for adding some refreshing clarity to this hoary old topic. I would like to comment a point you made: « There still seem to be be swathes of (particularly) US writers who have latched onto "the beer and naked women" roles of particular fonts, and keep missing the point. Of course, in extreme cases, it's obvious that if you have extreme difficulty in reading something, you won't understand it very well. But that's at the extremity, and deals with exceptions, not more general experience. » A very large proportion of the readers of the English language manuals I write are not native English speakers. For them, it does not take an extreme case of typographic un-clarity to disturb their understanding of a text. Already the English words used can have various shades of meaning, and technical vocabulary does not translate directly between languages. A recent example in a manual I was updating had this phrase: « They have a turned transformer » The NESB (non English speaking background) technicians asked « What is a tumed transformer ? », because the font used put the « r » too close to the « n » and it looked like an « m ». In fact, it should have been « a tuned transformer ». A technician is obviously familiar with that term, but an NESB technician will have to wonder if « tumed » is one of the many foreign words he or she does not know. Put one or two more little anomalies like this on the page being read by an NESB person on a steamy Friday afternoon after a generous lunch, and the measure of comprehension will plummet. I certainly agree in general with what you are saying, but what is « extreme » in some circumstances is quite ordinary in others. I admire your use of analogy in explaining the concepts, it's not easy to strike the right balance between subjective humour and universal relevance. I think « the beer and naked women » label should become an industry standard term to differentiate between the visual experience of a typeface and its effect on comprehension. Best regards, Reg HARDMAN Rédacteur technique Paris >Let me put this another way... .... > ><And a Hi! and cheerio to all those out there who've been here before...> > >-Peter M ************************************************** To view the austechwriter archives, go to www.freelists.org/archives/austechwriter To unsubscribe, send a message to austechwriter-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with "unsubscribe" in the Subject field (without quotes). To manage your subscription (e.g., set and unset DIGEST and VACATION modes) go to www.freelists.org/list/austechwriter To contact the list administrator, send a message to austechwriter-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ************************************************** ************************************************** To view the austechwriter archives, go to www.freelists.org/archives/austechwriter To unsubscribe, send a message to austechwriter-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with "unsubscribe" in the Subject field (without quotes). To manage your subscription (e.g., set and unset DIGEST and VACATION modes) go to www.freelists.org/list/austechwriter To contact the list administrator, send a message to austechwriter-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx **************************************************