John, It is only easy to be disciplined if you own the style and the document! As soon as you start sharing all hell breaks loose! Most of our work has been done using or modifying the Def Aust DTDs. These are available to the Web (http://www.defence.gov.au/dps/) and reasonably well documented. If you are interested in DocBook expertise, try xml-doc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx which is primarily a user group for DocBook, although they do often discuss more generic XML documentation issues. Personally, I remain a bit suspicious of DocBook because of its reputed complexity, and because it uses a recursive structure for paragraph hierarchies. I much prefer to set limits on how deep you can make a hierarchy as this simplifies building output formats and keeps certain writers under control. I much prefer the explicitly defined paragraph hierarchy of the Def Aust DTDs. What I recommend is that you get a good SGML or XML manual that describes how to build DTDs, and dissect those available publicly, and plagiarise what is good about them to fit your own house requirements. For example both the Def Aust and DocBook DTDs provide elements and attributes no one ever uses. Eliminate them, and the DTD you have to manage and build formats for is much simpler. Also, even if you have to add more elements or attributes later, as long as they are added to your basic structure without changing the logic you started with, your existing documents will be quite happy in the revised DTD. We are an Adobe FrameMaker house. (Allette Systems and Absolute Data) provide excellent local support and training. Absolute Data even provides readymade FrameMaker Templates (free) for the core Def Aust 5629a DTD. Other excellent commercial editors are Arbor Text's Epic Editor and Corel's XMetaL. If we were starting from scratch we would certainly give a good thorough look at the Melbourne developed SpeedLegal SmartPrecedent (XML based). When we last looked at SmartPrecedent as a potential contract authoring environment it was almost ready to go forward as a precedents based technical writing environment using any arbitrary DTD (tested with Def Aust 5629 and DocBook) but I didn't have time to chase it further and our tech authors were and are quite comfortable with their existing toolkit, thank you. SmartPrecedent could well end up being best-of-breed. This week there has been an excellent discussion of free and open source XML editors on the xml-doc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx forum. I can't offer much advice on output formatting, given that we deliver our documentation products either as raw SGML or automatically rendered HTML via our content management system. Our WYSIWYG FrameMaker environment (also used for internal printing requirements) was based on Absolute Data's and then modified to fit our homebrewed DTDs. Regards, Bill Hall Documentation Systems Analyst Head Office, Engineering Tenix Defense Williamstown, Vic. 3016 Phone: 03 9244 4820 Email:bill.hall@xxxxxxxxx URL: http://www.tenix.com Honorary Research Fellow Knowledge Management Lab School of Information Management & Systems Monash University Caulfield East, Vic. 3145 Phone: 03 9903 1883 Email: william.hall@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx URL: http://www.sims.monash.edu.au/research/km/ =20 -----Original Message----- From: John Murphy [mailto:john.murphy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Friday, 8 August 2003 11:43 AM To: austechwriter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [austechwriter] Word v. XML Bill, I genuflect before your awesome discipline. I mean that sincerely. I agree that 'keeping it simple' and using 'save as' are two keys to successful word usage. I am hoping to migrate my company's manuals to an xml environment Does anybody use DocBook? I need to think about training myself this year before presenting the migration plan to the board next year. Any suggestions for training on xml? I will go to summer school if I have to. John Murphy Documentation and Quality Dilithium Networks =20 TEL: +61 2 9215 4624 FAX: +61 2 9215 4699 MOB: +61 415324479 john.murphy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx =20 Universal Access, from any device, anywhere This electronic message contains information from Dilithium Networks Pty Ltd which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. 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