[access-uk] Re: Apple or?
- From: "James & Nash" <james.austin1984@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 11:40:01 +0000
Hi Steve,
Thank you for the clarification regarding Window Eyes. However, I think that
the ability for object navigation in WE is limited by the continued use of DOM
mode in some cases, but I could be wrong about this.
Steve, from your response, am I to understand that you have not used a Mac?
TC
James, Lyn, Nash & Twinny
On 16 Jan 2010, at 23:17, Steve Nutt wrote:
> Hi James,
>
> You are incorrect. This can easily be done with Window-Eyes, since you have
> physical mouse exp=loration.
>
> You can also do it to some degree with Talks, with the object viewer.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
> -----Original Message-----
> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
> James & Nash
> Sent: Saturday 16 January 2010 18:42
> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Apple or?
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> What you need to remember is that regardless of whether people use a Mac or
> the IPhone, Apple's philosophy is that the Blind should be able to access
> the same information as sighted users in exactly the same way. Thus Voice
> Over users object navigation on both. Object Navigation gives us the ability
> to view the screen in the same way as our sighted counterparts i.e. if
> someone is asking me where the Mailboxes window is to be found in Mail, I
> can tell them to look on the left hand side of the window. Moreover, I can
> tell them that it is to the left of the message table and separated by a
> vertical splitter. This to my knowledge cannot be done with other Screen
> readers except NVDA and Orca to some extent.
>
> But as Jim said, the fact that we now have choices is great. So is the fact
> that we no longer need to be part of the monopoly if we do not wish to be.
>
> I am curious, have you had the opportunity to sit down with a Mac or an
> IPhone yet?
>
> TC
> James, Lyn, Nash & Twinny
>
>
> On 16 Jan 2010, at 17:06, jim denton wrote:
>
>> Hi Steve,
>>
>> good point, but the interface is more of a visual concept. People who
> loose their sight later in life may find that easier to learn. As I have
> said, it is good to have choices, and thats good for every one.
>>
>> Cheers for now Jim
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 11:40 AM
>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Apple or?
>>
>>
>>> Hi Jim,
>>>
>>> But that's just the point. You are not using the same commands as
> sighted
>>> people as you put it.
>>>
>>> When you turn on Voiceover, it changes the gesturing system to that which
> is
>>> more "blind-friendly" for want of a better word.
>>>
>>> So many sighted people don't understand the interface at all when
> voiceover
>>> is turned on.
>>>
>>> Had they kept it the same for both camps, then it really would have been
>>> good, but they didn't for one reason or another, and that's one thing I
>>> don't like.
>>>
>>> With Talks for example, for the most part, you are accessing the phone
>>> exactly the same as a sighted person would, except for special keys like
> the
>>> signal strength etc. But Apple in their wisdom, chose to change the
> whole
>>> gesturing system.
>>>
>>> All the best
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
> Of
>>> jim denton
>>> Sent: Wednesday 13 January 2010 16:08
>>> To: accessuk
>>> Subject: [access-uk] Apple or?
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Just a few thoughts. I have been reading a few of the threads over the
> last
>>> week or so, the I.pod touch came up. I am not going to bang the drum for
> one
>>>
>>> device or another.
>>>
>>> As some will know, I like things to be simple, I am a user of tech gear,
> but
>>>
>>> don't really understand whats going on underneath.
>>>
>>> Nokia have been providing phones for over 12 years, third party companies
>>> have added speech to those phones for us. Now there is GPS added to that,
>>> again by third parties. That makes three different companies in the loop
> to
>>> give the phone functions for us to use. I don't know what the time gap
> there
>>>
>>> is to update for us, but my guess is that Nokia has to upgrade the
>>> opperating system, then the speech companies do their stuff and finally
> the
>>> navigation software. Hopefully all three areas talk to each other, but I
> bet
>>>
>>> they all blaim each other for bugs and faults. Who is at the end of this
>>> game us, speech has been on the phone for about ten years, but we have to
>>> wait, and then cough up for new releases.
>>>
>>> Apple brought out their first phone three years ago, not accessable. but
> two
>>>
>>> years later, there is a accessable phone, a new concept for us blinkies
> to
>>> get to grips with. The speech is part of the opperating system, so thats
> one
>>>
>>> less third party company to deal with. This phone is less than a year
> old,
>>> and you can already get Navigation, dictation, music, and a choice of
>>> thousands of other apps to try out. Not all of the stuff works well, and
>>> some does not work at all, but it gives us more choice. I have not used
> one
>>> of these phones but it seems to me, that if we are using the same
> commands
>>> as our sighted friends, then they will be able to help and advise rather
>>> than having expensive training with our hightech wizards. There will be
>>> less chance of the specialist companies blaiming the opperating systems
> for
>>> bugs, and blaiming other access companies when their stuff doesn't work.
>>>
>>> For me, a phone is to make calls on, and text on. I would like to have a
>>> pocket navigation solution, and at some point use the phone to get on to
> the
>>>
>>> internet. I will be upgrading my phone this year and will look at all the
>>> options. If the Iphone gets a really good Daisy reader, and maybe a
> scanning
>>>
>>> app, then I will seriously look at that, to do all that with a Nokia
> phone
>>> would cost a lot of money and woud remain a dream.
>>>
>>> Keep it simple stupid Jim
>>>
>>>
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