[access-uk] Re: Access in libraries and spending choices

  • From: "Saqib" <saqib500@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 11:20:08 +0100

Hi I've used satogo.com in a local caf and it works fine. However I would like my own key to use public machines. This way you don't have to wait for the speech to upload which can take up to 2 minutes depending on the speed of connection. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 

To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 10:16 AM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Access in libraries and spending choices



Hi Dave,

But none of the other screen readers can be portably used in libraries,
without modification, whereas SA Mobile can be.  I have done it in my own
library.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 
Dave Taylor
Sent: Friday 11 July 2008 09:14
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Access in libraries and spending choices

Hi

The need for libraries to spend this kind of money is really for two
reasons. Firstly, remembering how many visually impaired people are out of
work, it is logical to assume that there are plenty who simply can't afford a computer. Also, I think too many visually impaired people are just sitting 

at home, and if there's something that encourages them to get out because
they know there's something they could use, then that's a good thing. In
reality, however, they could kit 30 people per year up with really good
systems they could use anytime instead, which would actually be more useful. 

The other reason for encouraging this kind of spend is that some visually
impaired people do actually pay, through taxes, for otherwise inaccessible
library services. We should be campaigning for more to be spent on us.
However, I am of the view that the world is becoming less, rather than more 
accessible for us, and increasing numbers of visually impaired people will
be increasingly reliant on help to do things over time. Maybe when voice
activation really kicks in, things will reverse again, but I think we are
into one of those phases where things are against us. There is increasing
automation with no access for us, increasing numbers of shop staff unable to 

help us through, let's say, language issues, increasing numbers of gadgets
using touch interfaces we'll never manage, and the start of shared surfaces 
we'll never negotiate easily.
I believe the most urgent campaign should be that the DDA needs to make all 
gadgets provide accessible interfaces, or at least guarantee that certain
types of gadget are made available for us, and all environments must be
retrospectively made as accessible as possible, as quickly as possible. The 
latter can easily be justified as everything that is done for visually
impaired people can be done so that it helps all pedestrians and without
penalising wheelchair users, and this would contribute to increasing walking 

and improving the quality of the environment by seeing walking as the most
vital form of transport.

As for SAtogo, I think it is fantastic on the internet and seems to know
what to speak when. Sadly, it is less good in messenger aps as far as I can 
tell. I think with a few more keystrokes it would be even better. I think
Jaws still gives the most flexible navigation of all, but rate SAtogo as the 

next best. Obviously though, Window Eyes is better at many things SAtogo
won't do, and that will increasingly be the case as people write scripts for 

it.
The other more techie question that will get in the way of libraries now is 
do they allow people to use both IE and Firefox? I think this is becoming
increasingly vital. In fact, I see a time when Firefox is the browser of
choice for many visually impaired people, maybe more so than IE!

Cheers
Dave


--------------------------------------------------
From: "Rays Home" <rays-home@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 11:12 PM
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [access-uk] Access in libraries and spending choices
Like to share some thoughts, and ask a few questions, which are prompted by an invite to look at a test web page of a database with info on leisure and 
library services in Sandwell, located in (the black country.)
All 19 library branches have one computer with JAWS and Supernova installed. 

First problem, starting JfW or SN.

After actually finding the one computer in the network with access tech
loaded, The staff didn't know where the shortcuts to these apps were
located, but transpired they were in programs, access ability. Well, logical
I suppose, but three levels deep? Couldn't a link been put on the start menu 

with 'j' for jaws, 's' for SN? Maybe binding a keyboard shortcut to the
present location could be another option? I tried the obvious control-alt
combinations, but neither app launched that way.

None of us were regular JFW users, so I got less out of the visit than I
might have; the SN user was lost as much because the settings in the control
preferences weren't what he was used to, and the magnification took away all 

screen context of the page.
We think at least some sort of crib sheet should be in every location where these programs are installed, and some evidence that someone knows of their 
existance and where to start them.

The winner in all this if there was one? SATOGO! A friend got that up and
working and was able to navigate the test web page fine. It might be fair to 

add that most VI people in the area invited didn't turn up saying they'd
test the page at home, and I hope they do.

Still, I ask myself, is all this money, probably 30k or more spent on this
access, really money well spent? No, I'm not saying Sandwell and other local 

authorities shouldn't bother, but seeing how unlikely it is that VI people
will use the library facilities you have to ask yourself if the money
couldn't have been better spent elsewhere. I've mentioned on another list
how this spend pales into insignificance compared with millions quite
literally wasted in other areas of spending. Still, funding is found for
this almost unused access, while, say, top-up pre-9:30 passes have been
firmly abolished. Me thinks priorities are a bit strange.
Still, its a reminder if any's needed where the access guys get their income 

and why they mightn't always be too forthcoming to humble individuals if
someone from a local authority can do a quick draw of the cheque book and
start spending money making you think its maybe phone numbers they are on
about.

I was certainly impressed by hearing and watching SATOGO in action, and,
even if your library hasn't splashed out so generously you can still gain
good access, and with an account always have it the way you're used to using 

it.

What do you think?

Cheers,

Ray.





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