[Wittrs] Is Homeostasis the Answer? (Re: Variations in the Idea of Consciousness)
- From: "SWM" <SWMirsky@xxxxxxx>
- To: wittrsamr@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 15:10:48 -0000
--- In Wittrs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "iro3isdx" <xznwrjnk-evca@...> wrote:
> --- In Wittrs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "SWM" <SWMirsky@> wrote:
>
>
> > Anyway, you initially said that the missing piece, the reason AI
> > can't conceivably succeed in producing conscious intelligence,
> > was that it lacked homeostasis.
>
> I don't think I actually said that. What I did say, was that I ran
> into stumbling blocks when investigating how AI could solve the
> problems, and homeostasis turned out to be able to get past those
> stumbling blocks. While I am skeptical that AI (as computationalism)
> can succeed, I don't have any proof that it cannot.
>
Well perhaps it's just another of our misunderstandings then. That's how I
recall you putting it re: homeostasis and you really hadn't corrected me until
now so I presumed I had it right. As to "proof", I didn't suggest (or mean to
suggest) you were arguing to prove AI couldn't succeed, only that you doubted
it could because it lacked homeostasis. But if homeostasis is no longer at
issue, then I guess we have got somewhere in that we've eliminated another of
my misunderstandings.
>
> > You've suggested a number of things in the course of our exchanges,
> > the most recent being adaptiveness or adaptation, but you've recently
> > said that none of the suggested intermediate steps (pragmatics,
> > perception, adapatation) form a direct 'line' from homeostasis
> > to consciousness.
>
> I am looking at things, looking at the problems that a cognitive agent
> must solve, in a very different way from that assumed by most AI
> people. It has been hard to explain the differences and the reasons
> for them, because we start talking past one another at that point.
>
Yes, it seems that must be the case. Certainly, in thinking you thought
homeostasis was the key I must have gotten you wrong.
>
> > For the record, and just to reiterate, what I mean by "consciousness"
> > is that array of features we discover in our own subjective
> > experience (our mental life) that we associate with being conscious,
> > having a mind. Included among these are:
>
>
> > awareness
> > understanding
> > remembering
> > thinking
> > feeling
> > perceiving
> > intentionality (aboutness)
> > intentionality (having purposes)
>
> My approach seems to cover those. I am writing up something at the
> moment, and I'll email you about it when I have filled in enough of the
> details.
>
> Regards,
> Neil
>
> =========================================
Ah, that will be interesting then. Looking forward to it.
SWM
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