Here's another diagram I've been sharing with the math teachers, looks like something from LW's RFM in some ways: This is from my debate with the aforementioned midwesterner. http://www.flickr.com/photos/17157315@N00/4199404344/ What it aims to show is you might use a triangle to visualize A x B. How is the meaning of "multiplication" affected? The answers are the same, i.e. 3 x 10 = 30. But instead of a grid of 3 x 10 squares, we're working against a grid of triangles and using those as our units. Likewise with tetrahedra. A x B x C has a tetrahedral interpretation. I think these are the kinds of grammatical shifts Wittgenstein would have us investigate. It's not like we offer any proofs that right angles are the only way to go. We do, however, use right angles to peg our "dimension talk" of one, two, three dimensions (then more, confusing people with talk of a "fourth orthogonal" etc., when doing multi-dimensional polytopes). What I endeavor to get across is that "4D" (as in four dimensional) does *not* have one fixed meaning (note "meaning" -- why this is in a Wittgenstein thread). We have at least two different "namespaces" or "language games" in our culture in which 4D has an established meaning: 3D + Time = 4D = world lines, Einstein's namespace (relativity etc.). 3D + 1D = 4D = tesseract, Coxeter's namespace (polytopes etc.) Coxeter himself is clear these are two completely different lineages (contexts) for 4D. See pg. 119 of Regular Polytopes (I might quote it later). Then late in the 20th century came this additional namespace which I'd call a philosophical namespace, which no one studies except for me and a few people, despite all the honors and awards, applications, international reputation of its principal author etc: 4D = tetrahedron, Fuller's namespace. The latter is not starting with the premise that ordinary space is 3D, as represented by three mutual perpendiculars identified as height, width and depth respectively. Fuller writes: 527.702 Geometers and "schooled" people speak of length, breadth,and height as constituting a hierarchy of three independent dimensional states -- "one-dimensional,""two-dimensional," and "three-dimensional" -- which can be conjoined like building blocks. But length, breadth, and height simply do not exist independently of one another nor independently of all the inherent characteristics of all systems and of all systems' inherent complex of interrelationships with Scenario Universe. Fuller is more like Wittgenstein in saying something like "imagine a tribe that considered the tetrahedron to be its chief measure of volume, as well as the signature shape of volume in general, the minimum tent or representation of enclosure. When they say their space is 4D, not 3D, they're putting distance between their culture and our cube." Implied in the above description is that our tribe is different (why we have to "imagine" that other one): we worship the cube ("our cube"), almost forget what a tetrahedron is half the time (a "three sided pyramid" right?). Tracing the meaning of "4D" is, I think, a fascinating exercise and needs a lot more commentators as we seek to move forward, pass the torch in a coherent way. The art historian who has done some of the most research on this is Linda Dalrymple Henderson, in this award-winning title: The Fourth Dimension and Non-Euclidean Geometry in Modern Art (Princeton University Press, 1983; new ed., MIT Press, 2009), by Dr. Linda Dalrymple Henderson. It's an area ripe for Wittgensteinian philosophy though, not just art history. You have real world applications on the ground, i.e. people like me, trying to introduce the elements of a new digital math curriculum. You also have reason to bring up Remarks on the Foundations of Mathematics and to go, from there, to the rest of the corpus (it all hangs together pretty well, Tractatus included, for message if not approach). Say, I'm wondering to what extent Rich Text Formatting will come through on Wittrsamr and echoing lists. I should probably stick with plaintext, right? Kirby ========================================= Need Something? Check here: http://ludwig.squarespace.com/wittrslinks/