Kirby, First, thanks for sharing this. I'd be very interested in a progress report as things develop. Second, could you specify more clearly the nature of the obstacles as you see them? I'm hearing a lot of intriguing ideas, but having difficulty figuring out precisely what you're seeking. With those caveats, I'll offer some thoughts which may or may not be relevant. My suspicion is that any discussion of, e.g. the arbitrariness of grammar might be counterproductive, perhaps even becoming another skirmish in the "culture wars" where "liberals", "secularists", or whatever else you may be called are accused now of seeking to even undermine mathematics. What seems more likely to persuade are demonstrations of consistency (or rather, relative consistency: consistency with Euclidean geometry and familiar systems of measure) and applicability (which your remarks seem to suggest are available). A Platonist who is troubled is a candidate for Wittgensteinian therapy. Someone who simply accepts Platonist-sounding assumptions without ever making them explicit let alone being troubled by them is likely not. But please elaborate if these observations completely miss the point. as I fear they very well may. JPDeMouy ========================================== Need Something? Check here: http://ludwig.squarespace.com/wittrslinks/