[C] [Wittrs] Digest Number 78

  • From: WittrsAMR@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • To: WittrsAMR@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: 19 Dec 2009 10:36:32 -0000

Title: WittrsAMR

Messages In This Digest (10 Messages)

1a.
Re: Wittgenstein and Theories From: Rob de Villiers
1b.
Re: Wittgenstein and Theories From: J DeMouy
1c.
Re: Wittgenstein and Theories From: Sean Wilson
1d.
Re: Wittgenstein and Theories From: SWM
1e.
Re: Wittgenstein and Theories From: J DeMouy
1f.
Re: [C] Re: Wittgenstein and Theories From: kirby urner
1g.
Re: Wittgenstein and Theories From: Sean Wilson
1h.
Re: [C] Re: Wittgenstein and Theories From: Sean Wilson
2a.
help the math teachers? From: kirby urner
2b.
Re: help the math teachers? From: J DeMouy

Messages

1a.

Re: Wittgenstein and Theories

Posted by: "Rob de Villiers" wittrsamr@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Fri Dec 18, 2009 4:38 am (PST)





Sean,

Yes, Wittgennstein's "a-theoretical" cum "purely descriptive"
conception of philosophy has caused great consternation, even
distress or fury, to many.

Your characterisation of the issue in terms of "laws" is, I
think, more or less OK... but I would be inclined to describe
the situation as Wittgenstein rejecting the notion that
philosophy is theory construction or hypothtico-deductive-
explanatory undertaking... which might boil down to the same
thing as being "against LAWS". But I think something is going
a bit awry when you say "Wittgenstein is against LAWS, not
"theories", since the plain fact of the matter is that he most
plainly and categorically rejects the notion that philosophy
is a theoretical or theory-constructing enterprise at all.

The quotes you give from various sources are indeed pertinent,
but it surprises me that you do not mention and quote PI $109,
which seems to me Wittgenstein's fundamental, central and core
statement on this matter. I do not have PI on me right now, so
cannot accurately reproduce it. At any rate this and several
preceding and subsequent remarks in PI are to my mind pretty
clear on this, and definitive.

Discussing the roots of philosophical confusion in the Blue
Book, Wittgenstein writes in a way that certainly ties in
with your recourse to the notion of "laws", but which goes
considerably further in the direction I have tried to
intimate:

"Our craving for generality has another main source; our
preoccupation with the method of science. I mean the method
of reducing the explanation of natural phenomena to the
smallest possible number of primitive natural laws; and,
in mathematics, of unifying the treatment of different
topics by using a generalization. Philosophers constantly
see the method of science before their eyes, and are
irresistibly tempted to ask and answer in the way science
does. This tendency is the real source of metaphysics, and
leads the philosopher into complete darkness. I want to say
here that it can never be our job to reduce anything to
anything, or to explain anything. Philosophy really is '
purely descriptive'. (Think of such questions as "Are there
sense data?" and ask: What method is there of determining
this? Introspection?)"

Of course you are perfectly correct to say "One assumes he
is not against something like this in science" ... since
"something like this" might well be, in large measure,
definitive of what science is anyway. To say that philosophy
should not try to imitate science does not entail that science
is in some way doing things wrong - let alone that it should
imitate his philosophising! All it entails is that philosophy
is an undertaking that is in toto different from science, its
tasks, problems and issues are of a quite different nature or
type. This of course goes completely against the grain of
venerable traditions dating way back but more recently
manifested in the line of descent: Russell &c, -> Logical
Positivism -> Quinean "Post-Positivism", -> Davidson, Dummett,
and many others who all, to some degree or other, conceive
of philosophy as a "theory constructing", explanatory enterprise
thoroughly contiguous and continuous with the sciences, albeit at
a perhaps "higer" or "more general" or "more fundamental" level.
Hence there has, in many philosophical quarters been either virtual
dismissal or polite ignoring of Wittgenstein or else much wailing
and gnashing of teeth. But of course, Wittgenstein's a-theoretical
conception of philosophy is one of the very things that makes him
so revolutionary and unsettling ...

Peter Hacker (sometimes along with Gordon Baker) has written
extensively, and I reckon pretty definitively, on Wittgenstein's
a-theoretical, purely descriptive conception of philosophy, not
least in the Analytical Commentary itself but many places else-
where too (although even Hacker and Baker winded up with
fundamental disagreements on Wittgenstein's method!!!)
Hacker might not be the last word on Wittgenstein but he is
certainly one of the most sound and scholarly we have, on most
of the basics. I could provide a string of specific biblio-
graphical references should anyone want, but for now I will
just point you in the direction of some of Hacker's essays,
in particular 'Philosophy: a contribution, not to human
knowledge, but to human understanding' available at
http://info.sjc.ox.ac.uk/scr/hacker/RecentPapers.html.

Regards,

Rob.

--
Rob
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1b.

Re: Wittgenstein and Theories

Posted by: "J DeMouy" wittrsamr@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:40 am (PST)



Sean,

The issue of "theories" (and "theses") is one to which I too have given a lot of thought. Thank you for raising the topic. There is much to what you have to say. In what follows, I'll first respond by way of outlining my own approach to these matters and perhaps we can compare and contrast.

An issue that isn't often discussed but that is important in thinking about this and other issues is the role of the teacher-student relationship in many of Wittgenstein's dialectics. In reading his lectures, we should remember that Wittgenstein was there to teach his method and those attending presumably attended because they wanted to learn this method.

What might be called "guiding suspicions", "heuristic principles", "rules of thumb", or "methodological rules" are not, in this context, contentious. You accept them to the extent that you want to learn the method. Thus they are not "theses" in the sense of contentious claims. But in another context they might be. (The boundary between methodological statements and statements within a method is not a sharp one.)

Relevance? If we fail to see this, it will look as if Wittgenstein is making blatantly self-refuting claims, e.g. asserting the thesis that one ought to not assert theses. Or offering a theory about why theories have no place in philosophy.

This is more complicated when dealing with Wittgenstein's writings intended for publication to a general audience.

He is offering a method. But why should we adopt this method? Any attempt to justify the method would turn the statements of the method into "theses" or a "theory". One may persuaded to adopt the method, perhaps by considering the lack of "progress" in the history of philosophy, by considering the problems with other approaches, by finding particular confusions of one's own alleviated through the use of the method, and so on, but this is not the same as finding grounds for statements of the method.

(And the difficulties here show up in discussions between Wittgensteinian and other philosophers.)

Let's consider some possible interpretations of the word "theory" and why, in each case, Wittgenstein might have rejected methods of doing philosophy that pursue such things.

1.  "Theory" as it is used in various of the natural sciences to refer to, e.g. The Theory of Relativity or the Theory of Evolution.

This is a non-starter for me, because he would be "preaching to the choir".  Since the time of Kant (and at least until Quine), there was widespread agreement across different philosophical schools that philosophy was not one of the natural sciences, that it was not empirical.  Following Frege's attack on psychologism (and the conversion of Husserl to that cause), the last vestiges of tendencies to (explicitly) treat philosophical problems as empirical were being cleared away.

But if we suppose he was making that point even if it would not have distinguished him in any way from the Vienna Circle, we can at least easily see the problems with philosophers being producers of such theories.
Philosophers, qua philosophers, do not have access to the laboratories and other equipment needed for modern scientific experimentation.  Philosophers, qua philosophers, are not trained in the existing theories and methods prerequisite for modern scientific research.  There are names for people who do such research and since the 19th century, "philosopher" isn't one of them.

2.  "Theory" as something hypothetical, something awaiting further data, though not necessarily scientific data

Recall the problem of treating the nature of Tractarian objects as something that further analysis would reveal.  Since such objects were meant to secure the possibility of sense (the possibility of sense was supposed to depend on them!) the idea that we might have no idea what they might be is... problematic.  Issues like the color exclusion problem forced that problem into the light, where once the oddness might have been dismissed.

If the goal is to remove confusions caused by misunderstanding, then an hypothesis, something awaiting further data, merely puts off dealing with the misunderstanding.  But if it is a misunderstanding - rather than a factual question - then we shouldn't need further data.

(The idea that philosophical puzzles arise from misunderstandings and that theories have no place are complementary.  In the _Tractatus_, Wittgenstein was less clear about that connection.)

Furthermore, what sort of data are we to await?  If empirical, then we are dealing with a scientific question and the points about science and philosophy apply.

The Tractarian view of analysis did provide an idea of how analysis might yield "data" in the future...

3.  "Theory" as something describing an underlying hidden structure or essence, though not necessarily the essence or structure of something that can be revealed by empirical investigation

Note that saying, "there is no deep structure" or "there is no essence" would also be theories in this sense, albeit negative ones. Consider the advice, "don't think, but look", in the discussion of the word "game" and the introduction of the "family resemblance" simile. We may be persuaded to cease the pursuit of some element common to all and only activities called "games", but that is not the same as proof that there could be no such thing.

Searching for the essence of thought, the nature of the proposition, the most basic constituents of reality, the real foundations of mathematics, and so on. The negative part of the dialectic is a patient examination of various proposals, showing how the break down. The positive part is reminding us to consider our real need and leading us to question whether any such theory could satisfy it.

4. "Theory" as generalization

"All generalizations are false" is of course self-refuting. And not all generalizations should be called "theories". But the methods of "covering laws", "finite axiomatization", and would be.

The problem here is that such approaches tend to lead us away from careful examination of particular cases and tend to lead us into further confusion when our principles come into conflict, and may do nothing to address whatever confusions started us down that path.

And there are particular problems with particular generalizations, which must be dealt with case by case (though similar cases may call for similar approaches).

Some additional replies to specific remarks...

> I've always been troubled by how certain remarks of
> Wittgenstein are understood. In particular, the ones about
> theorizing. Wittgenstein quite clearly told his students
> that he was never presenting a theoretical account of
> anything and that to do so was inherently problematic.

I would be interested in what specifically troubled you about this.  I am not suggesting that you were wrong to be troubled, but I am supposing that different people may be troubled for different reasons here.  And since the tendency to approach philosophy as a theorizing activity is seen as a source of confusion in Wittgensteinian philosophy, making explicit why the call to abandon the approach would be troubling might shed some light on the issue.  Even help us with those less inclined to even consider not taking that approach, since presumably they'd find it troubling too, perhaps for similar reasons.

> I had always maintained this strand of Wittgenstein's
> thought was misunderstood by many people. Some people read
> it as saying that conceptualism or abstract sort of
> thinking is disallowed.

I'm not quite sure what you mean here.  Examples of the sorts of thing they would (wrongly) think impermissible? 

Also, I'd actually take issue with "disallowed".  If you go this way rather than that, you are merely doing philosophy in a manner different from Wittgenstein's.  He may hope to persuade you to proceed differently or think that the way you're going will get you nowhere, but he isn't actually forbidding anything.

This is important, not just quibbling, because obviously, since we are not all Wittgensteinians, he'd be saying something contentious.

This is clearly not the case. My
> old way of saying it was this: Wittgenstein is
> against "formalism, not conceptualism." I would say: he's
> against making certain subjects (language, art, etc) into a
> mathematics or a logic. In what are incredibly radical
> lectures, he was also against making mathematics itself into
> a kind of "mathematics" or logic in the sense that I am now
> speaking.

I think there is definitely a misunderstanding in this as well.  There's a lot to disentangle here, but that would take us far afield.

For now, I'll just say that he was not "against" formalization.  But he wanted to disabuse us of certain confusions that often surround such activities. There are a number he discusses, but in none of them is there an objection to formalization, per se.

What he is
> fundamentally against is an approach to understanding
> wherein a person will try to produce a law for the activity
> -- at least for language, ethics, aesthetics, mathematics
> and many others. (One assumes he is not against something
> like this in science. But maybe even here, it could have
> issues).

There's some unclarity here.  If he is opposed to proposing laws as a means to philosophical understanding (and my initial remarks above show where I would agree with such an interpretation) then he is just as much opposed to proposing laws as a means to further our philosophical understanding of science as in any other area whose misunderstanding might lead to philosophical confusion. 

The fact that science clearly does propose laws has nothing to do with whether the philosophy of science should proceed in the same way.

But if he is taken as being opposed to proposing laws, per se (with an exception being granted for science) - rather than only being opposed to the proposing of laws for philosophical purposes - that would have him setting up philosophy as some sort of authority on how other activities ought to proceed.  And that strikes me as a very un-Wittgensteinian idea.

Would he be opposed to laws in linguistics?  Not as such.  The philosophy of language is another matter.  Similarly, contrasting mathematics and the philosophy of mathematics.

With ethics and aesthetics, the contrast between the practice of philosophy and how such matters are discussed in other contexts is less straightforward. 

Rather than "ethics" and "the philosophy of ethics", some speak of "meta-ethics".  Likewise, some distinguish between "aethetics" and "philosophical aesthetics" (which is not quite the same as a "philosophy of aesthetics" might be, if we follow the precedent of the Oxonion distinction between "philosophical psychology" and "philosophy of psychology" or between "philosophical logic" and "philosophy of logic".) 

Some would be inclined to call any discussion of norms and values "philosophical".  That's fine, but if we do that, we should not then suppose that Wittgenstein's recommendations and methods are applicable to everything we might call "philosophy".

Clearly, Wittgenstein was interested in examining the variety of ways that people proceed in their ethics talk, aesthetics talk, and so on.  In being clearer about the role such talk - and related activity - plays in our complicated form of life.  Because philosophers get confused when they think about such matters.  But not everyone discussing ethics or aesthetics is a candidate for Wittgensteinian therapy, just as not every religious believer is a candidate, despite the superficial resemblances between some religious beliefs and some metaphysical talk.

JPDeMouy

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1c.

Re: Wittgenstein and Theories

Posted by: "Sean Wilson" whoooo26505@xxxxxxxxx   whoooo26505

Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:46 am (PST)



Hi Rob.

Good to hear from you. I wish you participated more here. Thanks for your excellent remarks. But let me perhaps clarify where we might not be exactly "square."

Consider the senses of "theory" today. In ordinary senses, one might offer this word to mean something as broad as "ideas" or concepts. Let us imagine a philosopher who came to the earth and said the following: logic is not the center of language, grammar is. Or who said, language is a behavior. Or who basically said: the model of language is games. In an ordinary parlance, one might take all of these to be "theories" about the way something works, where that word means only "a big account" or "a bird's eye view." It might even stand for "a picture that works the best." 

And so, if one has this sort of idea about "theories," and then reads the idea that theories are no longer of use to contemplative ventures, the net result is that thining degenerates into a kind of dinner conversation. The idea is to bastardize the conceptual. I see this point of view in postmodern thought -- particularly in law and in some circles of social science. One of my professors in graduate school who had this sort of dinner-conversation approach to his ideology of philosophy once told me to stop categorizing thought in my papers. It remains a very peculiar piece of "advice."

Anyway, my point was simply that reading Wittgenstein requires that one come to learn how he uses certain words. This gets even more hazardous as speaking conventions change. And that his use of the word "theory" means "law-candidate," and refers to the ritual that philosophers of his age were engaged in -- postulating candidates for laws for contemplative phenomenon. The idea would be that ethics would be subject to the great laws, so too aesthetics, language, logic, mathematics, etc. And it was the duty of philosophers to unearth theories ('law-candidates") of these matters that could be defended in "proofs," an idea that really began in the moral sciences period of intellectual history in the mid-to-late 1800s and hardened into a positivistic amalgamation of it in the early 1900s (logical positivism).

I had always called this style of reasoning as "formalism" (after my legal training).  Formalism is not the same as conceptualism. To be formalistic is to let the forms of reason be more important than the ends. Everything must reduce to something formulaic. 

And so the point is that Wittgenstein isn't against conceptual pontification or even abstractions, so long as one does not reify those things (become confused into thinking that they are anything other than their use). Indeed, Wittgenstein posited theories of an ordinary sort all of the time. What he never never did after late 1930, however, was postulate a theory in the style of a formalism. He never announced a "law-candidate" accompanied by its proof. But his way of speaking might have one think he is saying that he has no "points" (see Turing paragraph in my last mail); that he has no ideas (see Rhees paragraph); and that he doesn't want a bird's eye view (see Schlick and Waismann remarks). 

Indeed, one might say it this way: Wittgenstein's bird's eye view is no longer to climb the ladder, so to speak, but to dig beneath the ground. Meaning is now more excavational and anthropological. But he is not against the use of ideas and concepts that that serve this activity. It's the activity that is the focal point more than the fact that the mind is pontificaticous. The question is not whether you are pontificating; it is what the objects of thought are directed toward the right behavior (and never themselves thought to be autonomous). 

Regards.

Dr. Sean Wilson, Esq.
Assistant Professor
Wright State University
Personal Website: http://seanwilson.org
SSRN papers: http://ssrn.com/author=596860
Discussion Group: http://seanwilson.org/wittgenstein.discussion.html

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1d.

Re: Wittgenstein and Theories

Posted by: "SWM" wittrsamr@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:56 am (PST)



--- In Wittrs@yahoogroups.com, Rob de Villiers <wittrsamr@...> wrote:

> Sean,
>
> Yes, Wittgennstein's "a-theoretical" cum "purely descriptive"
> conception of philosophy has caused great consternation, even
> distress or fury, to many.

Hello Rob. How do you think that applies to questions about consciousness, i.e., what it is, what it results from, etc.?

Some here seem to think such questions are really irrelevant to philosophy in a Wittgensteinian sense and that asking what consciousness is just boils down to how we use the words we apply to such things, e.g., whether and how we might say of a fully functional human-like android (say the Data of Star Trek fame) that it is conscious or not. That is, such a decision would really be driven by adapted uses of the term to fit any relevant new criteria presented by the Data entity, etc.

More generally this position seems to be that there isn't a lot philosophy could bring to the table here.

While agreeing that the job of determining what causes (makes, produces, results in) consciousness is, finally, a scientific question, I tend to disagree with the notion that such questions are, finally, just about words, that is, how we are using existing terms and how we adapt them to new uses (or coin adequate substitutions).

My view is that the question of what a thing like consciousness is is a real one, even if we don't solve the problem of what causes it philosophically (via armchair speculation).

Thus it seems perfectly useful to me to ask what we mean by the term "consciousness" and want to know by that, NOT just when we use the term and in what circumstances, but also what these whens and whats say about the idea of consciousness itself, i.e., about the idea we are representing by, and alluding to, in the use of the term.

This looks like a rather fine point but I think it's important for getting a handle on what Wittgenstein was really on about. After all, many of his critics (Popper for instance) accuse him of just playing with words. My view is that that is a superficial understanding of what the linguistic turn in analytic philosophy is all about. Yet linguistic philosophy (whether done in the guise of a Wittgensteinian approach or, more generally, as an instance of so-called ordinary language philosophy) can very easily slide into this sort of attitude, making it ripe for critics like Popper.

In the end, asking what consciousness is, in a philosophical (not a scientific way), is NOT to ask for a theory about consciousness per se but only to ask what theories might make sense, which ways we should proceed in trying to develop such theories on a scientific level. That is, it's to ask what we have in mind when we use the term in various situations. That, of course, will inform and constrain the development of any actual theories developed in the course of scientific inquiry.

I'm inclined to think we sometimes go to far in sloughing off theories in line with Wittgenstein's comments on the matter. I don't think he wanted to shut the door on theories but only to note that that isn't the job of philosophy which has, as it's main goal, getting clear, enhancing undersanding.

SWM

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1e.

Re: Wittgenstein and Theories

Posted by: "J DeMouy" wittrsamr@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:57 am (PST)



Rob,

Very worthwhile remarks.

It appears to me that you and I are largely in agreement, but I am replying for a couple of reasons.

>
> The quotes you give from various sources are indeed
> pertinent,
> but it surprises me that you do not mention and quote PI
> $109,
> which seems to me Wittgenstein's fundamental, central and
> core
> statement on this matter. I do not have PI on me right now,
> so
> cannot accurately reproduce it. At any rate this and
> several
> preceding and subsequent remarks in PI are to my mind
> pretty
> clear on this, and definitive.

Since I have an ebook of the second edition, I thought I might help here.

109. It was true to say that our considerations could not be scientific ones. It was not of any possible interest
to us to find out empirically 'that, contrary to our preconceived ideas, it is possible to think such-and-such'--whatever
that may mean. (The conception of thought as a gaseous medium.) And we may not advance any kind of theory.
There must not be anything hypothetical in our considerations. We must do away with all explanation, and
description alone must take its place. And this description gets its light, that is to say its purpose, from the
philosophical problems. These are, of course, not empirical problems; they are solved, rather, by looking into the
workings of our language, and that in such a way as to make us recognize those workings: in despite of an urge to
misunderstand them. The problems are solved, not by giving new information, but by arranging what we have
always known. Philosophy is a battle against the bewitchment of our intelligence by means of language.

> Peter Hacker (sometimes along with Gordon Baker) has
> written
> extensively, and I reckon pretty definitively, on
> Wittgenstein's
> a-theoretical, purely descriptive conception of philosophy,
> not
> least in the Analytical Commentary itself but many places
> else-
> where too (although even Hacker and Baker winded up with
> fundamental disagreements on Wittgenstein's method!!!)
> Hacker might not be the last word on Wittgenstein but he is
>
> certainly one of the most sound and scholarly we have, on
> most
> of the basics.

Interestingly, one of Gordon's disagreements with Hacker was on the very matter of "theory". How much would Hacker's elaboration of rules of grammar, in the name of "perspicuous presentation", count as theorizing in an objectionable sense? I find this a very tricky subject and I can see why even two superb Wittgenstein scholars might disagree on this point.

JPDeMouy

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1f.

Re: [C] Re: Wittgenstein and Theories

Posted by: "kirby urner" wittrsamr@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:03 pm (PST)



Greetings Sean and others --

I am tracking this thread and do appreciate reading #109 again just now.
Those kick off quotes were great too. Much to learn from this list.

What comes to me are all his remarks about what he thought "theorizing"
might amount to (i.e. the philosophy of the bad old days): language idling,
language going on vacation.

If we wanna get more colorful, he thought a lot of philosophical
expostulating amounted to mouthing off and/or goofing off in a
non-productive manner.

The stronger theorists would be right no matter what, because of the private
language aspect of being internally consistent (more some other time), but
then this wouldn't matter, simply because "being right" isn't necessarily
advancing philosophy in a productive direction.

We're not all converging to the "one right thing" i.e. it's not a
gladiatorial sport where we're all waiting for the last great theory to
triumph and forever carry the day. Maybe some of us are. Be that as it
may, here's Wittgenstein showing how to escape that vista altogether (the
battlefield of warring theories) and go with something more expressive of
healing (of resolving -- less about casting out new "isms", less "king of
the hill").

So in looking to shut the door on theorizing ("we'd all agree to the theses"
-- a show stopper in a way), he's putting pressure on philosophy to prove
itself useful in a different way, in the delicate manner he describes in
#109, a fight against getting tripped up in our own grammatical
circumlocutions. It's a liberation philosophy in tone (freeing the fly from
the fly bottle), a promise of more cures to come.

This turning on theorizing as a principal activity earns Wittgenstein a
deserved reputation for striking off in a new direction. Having the
Tractatus to his name already, the praises of Russell and others, made this
second pass all the more striking. He had a lot of inertia behind him. He
made a big splash.

Some philosophers dislike how his contribution rocks their boats. He brings
an engineer's sensibility to the equations that values good work. He
appreciates ordinary language so much because it's getting stuff done,
getting slabs moved around. There's an implied ethic, a walk behind his
talk, which many of us here admire quite a lot.

Kirby
1g.

Re: Wittgenstein and Theories

Posted by: "Sean Wilson" whoooo26505@xxxxxxxxx   whoooo26505

Fri Dec 18, 2009 4:49 pm (PST)



(J)

... a couple of thoughts.

1. Regarding what I was troubled over, I said it in the last message that came contemporaneously with yours. It was post-modern scholars who claim to descend from Wittgenstein and who try to bastardize conceptualism or rigor in contemplation. Sometimes Wittgenstein is named as an heir here, something I think would cause him to roll over in his grave.

2. One way out of the apparent conundrum is by appealing to family resemblance (as you did when you considered senses of theories). As such, a "thesis not to present theses" may not be a contradiction if it is really only thesis-like, and if thesis-like statements are themselves ok in the craft defined by the statement. Precisely foreclosed is the idea of defining thesis from thesis-like, and defending the proposition. For that would be BEHAVING wrongly. It would, in short, be the presentation of a thesis.

Rather, the only proper way to BEHAVE is to show examples and illustrations of uses belonging to one activity versus another. So what is revealed by something thesis-like is a different sort of method of validation (showing), which, because it does validate, retains family resemblance with the other sort of behavior.

3. Let's say you present yourself solely for the purposes of showing a new craft. Each student comes before you with a false set of problems. Each with the wrong activity. Each with an entanglement of language. And what you do is show, through therapy, the confusions. And so what you are doing, in effect, is untying knots. And this is what "philosophy" comes then to be: a craft master who both shows the student that the knot exists and who talks the student through the practice of untying it. And as the student leaves, he or she now has the experience of searching for other knots or for knowing ways of preventing them in the first place (false problems).  

Liberated as it were, it is then written for all to see: "never form thesis, for they cause knots."  Only one who has knots would then say, "that's a contradiction." It would be like a bumper sticker that said, "stop using bumper stickers." One could say of the such a sticker, "you idiot!" But, you know, if it ended up getting the message out ... what's a girl to do??!!

Regards.

Dr. Sean Wilson, Esq.
Assistant Professor
Wright State University
Personal Website: http://seanwilson.org
SSRN papers: http://ssrn.com/author=596860
Discussion Group: http://seanwilson.org/wittgenstein.discussion.html

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1h.

Re: [C] Re: Wittgenstein and Theories

Posted by: "Sean Wilson" whoooo26505@xxxxxxxxx   whoooo26505

Fri Dec 18, 2009 5:01 pm (PST)



(Kirby)

... one of the things that strikes me is that Wittgenstein is a lot like Jesus (or Socrates) in this sense. What is needed is a group of disciples or followers to learn what was said and to wonder about what it meant. The key being that (a) it is greater than you; and (b) it requires a sorting out that involves coming to terms with what it was (experiencing it). It is never simply "news" (information) and it is not susceptible to being merely "an argument." It is foremost an experience. It's a different plane of regard. 

Regards.   
 
Dr. Sean Wilson, Esq.
Assistant Professor
Wright State University
Personal Website: http://seanwilson.org
SSRN papers: http://ssrn.com/author=596860
Discussion Group: http://seanwilson.org/wittgenstein.discussion.html

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2a.

help the math teachers?

Posted by: "kirby urner" wittrsamr@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Fri Dec 18, 2009 8:15 pm (PST)



Here's a bit of applied philosophy of mathematics I could use some help
with:

I've suggested a Wittgensteinian approach, but people don't necessarily know
what I'm talking about.

Picture a simple line drawing like from Remarks on the Foundations of
Mathematics, showing a square with 1 next to each edge and 1 in the middle.

This diagram "shows" that a square of edges 1 has an area of 1. It could be
considered an _expression_ of a rule by some, even though we may as yet have
precious little idea how to follow it.

Now picture another line drawing showing a triangle with a 1 next to each
edge and a 1 in the middle. This would suggest a different rule about area.

Analogous pictures may be placed side by side, of a cube and a tetrahedron,
once again with edges 1, once again with both shapes considered units of
volume, suggesting different rules, different grammars.

We're all familiar, from years of schooling, with square and cubic models
for area and volume. We haven't much experience with any divergent
ethnicity, any contrarian "tribe" or "form of life" that might school its
young differently.

A tetrahedral unit might seem of fleeting interest in an esoteric philosophy
book like RFM, a quick example, no reason to linger.

However, since those early days, a full-fledged philosophy has emerged
making triangular and tetrahedral mensuration a corner stone.

The difference may be regarded as "axiomatic" or "definitional" and in
principle there's nothing mathematically the matter with exploring in this
new direction.

However, the language games involved are somewhat unfamiliar and school
teachers, challenged to cover some of this material, may be confused about
whether any "rules" or "theories" are being disobeyed and/or falsified. I
sense a need for a stronger philosophy of mathematics in the coaching of
these school teachers.

The diagrams described above were in fact published in the 1970s in the
context of a magnum opus dealing with matters geometrical and philosophical.
There's an intro and appendix by an MIT crystallographer and Renaissance
man, Dr. Arthur Loeb. The dust jacket carries endorsements by Arthur C.
Clarke, U Thant. The author won a long list of honors and awards including
a Medal of Freedom from the USA president of that day.

http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/s09/figs/f9001.html

Just having more than one way of casting area and volume seems a kind of
monkey wrench to some, an "unfair" plot twist.

Other color diagrams were published showing the slicing and dicing of the
unit volume tetrahedron and assembly from pieces, to give related whole
number volumes for the cube (3), octahedron (4), rhombic triancontahedron
(5), rhombic dodecahedron (6) and cuboctahedron (20).

Of course you might scale any shape, relative to a reference unit, to have
any volume at all. But the above simple numbers correspond to an elegant
and simple "ecosystem" or "sculpture garden" of polyhedra known as the
"concentric hierarchy" in some circles.

Teachers here in Oregon are under some pressure to communicate more about
this material because of its simplicity and memorability. Why not teach
about lattices using simple whole number shapes as basic components? If the
elite schools are doing it, then why not the school down the street?

The rhombic dodecahedron (6), a space-filler and favorite of Kepler's,
contains the octahedron (4) and cube (3) as long and short face diagonals
respectively, with the cube containing said unit volume tetrahedron (1). So
many nice features, means Johnny and Sally, Ahmed and Tag, come home
sounding a lot savvier, more prepared for interesting work. Parents tend to
appreciate these favorable (propitious) signs.

You could expand it a bit, by showing how any m x n area or i x j x k volume
might be consistently rendered using a 60 degree instead of a 90 degree
based visualization.

The way these polyhedra are nested and stacked reminds one of M.C. Escher's
'Flatworms' or the Portland World Trade Center, in turn connecting to
Alexander Graham Bell and his forays into architecture (octet-truss).

It's less a 90-degree world than a 60-degree one, and as such comes across
as more hexagonal-biological than rectilinear-industrial.

Here in the Silicon Forest, a headquarters for nanotechnologies and
bioengineering, having students think grapically, in a right brainy kind of
way, is going to help them with molecular chemistry, chip design and
fabrication, medical imaging, filtration... anything having to do with
lattices.

I'm giving some reasons why there's time pressure. Those stuck in the
status quo seem to be suffering from philosophical difficulties,
insecurities, related to having something new making waves.

Wittgensteinians to the rescue? Or are these more questions for an
empirical science? Which one then? I'm thinking we're needing the services
of bona fide philosophers here. Consider me a recruiter.

Kirby

--
>>> from mars import math
http://www.wikieducator.org/Digital_Math
2b.

Re: help the math teachers?

Posted by: "J DeMouy" wittrsamr@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Fri Dec 18, 2009 9:07 pm (PST)



Kirby,

First, thanks for sharing this. I'd be very interested in a progress report as things develop.

Second, could you specify more clearly the nature of the obstacles as you see them? I'm hearing a lot of intriguing ideas, but having difficulty figuring out precisely what you're seeking.

With those caveats, I'll offer some thoughts which may or may not be relevant.

My suspicion is that any discussion of, e.g. the arbitrariness of grammar might be counterproductive, perhaps even becoming another skirmish in the "culture wars" where "liberals", "secularists", or whatever else you may be called are accused now of seeking to even undermine mathematics.

What seems more likely to persuade are demonstrations of consistency (or rather, relative consistency: consistency with Euclidean geometry and familiar systems of measure) and applicability (which your remarks seem to suggest are available).

A Platonist who is troubled is a candidate for Wittgensteinian therapy. Someone who simply accepts Platonist-sounding assumptions without ever making them explicit let alone being troubled by them is likely not.

But please elaborate if these observations completely miss the point. as I fear they very well may.

JPDeMouy

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