MJ Ray: > OK, if you want me to take up less screen space (and I do): how do you do > operations on windows without alienating "normal" users if you have no title > bar? I can shrink the title bar, but that just results in either using the > shape extension (slow on small machines) or having less to aim at (slow for > users, which I think is Fitt's law). i really do not know how you want to do things, i know some things i like [i don't care for title bars for instance] but if i had the time (and i don't) i would try to do what don gentner and jacob nielsen did (and in many ways what plan9 authors did) and throw away everything everyone is used to about the WMs and see what i'd come up with. see "anti mac interface" article (most likely the first hit you will find through google) for an effort to design a new interface by violating MAC human interface design guidelines. cheers... oz