(VICT) Re: Clyde.
- From: "Ann Edie" <annedie@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <vi-clicker-trainers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 15:49:44 -0500
Hi, Tami,
Thanks for the words of encouragement.
Panda does attract a bit of attention when we're out and about. But it is
amazing how difficult it is for fully sighted people to realize that they
are actually seeing something that they don't expect to see out on the
streets, a tiny horse! Usually they just think she is a rather large dog
until they get really close.
Panda does not seek strangers' attention, and in fact, she will go out of
her way to avoid it. She sees other people on the streets as obstacles to
be avoided--after all, they impede our progress! She sometimes gets a bit
impatient with me if I stop to talk with someone on the street for too long.
She will bump me with her nose as if to say, "All right, so let's get going
on our way already! Isn't that what we came out here for?"
Panda also does not enjoy strangers' touching or petting her. We have
taught her to politely tolerate this invasion of her personal space, but I
do not want to overdo this and test her patience. She loves interacting
with the humans and horses whom she considers her family. She has the
cutest nicker for me whenever I appear, and she loves to put her little
muzzle close to my face and to sniff my breath to see what good fruit or
vegetable I have been eating. She also likes me to scritch behind her ears,
and she loves to rub her head on my legs, just like a cat, only bigger. I
have also taught her to touch my hand with several parts of her body as I
name them: chin, nose, forehead, ear, shoulder. I haven't taught her to do
this with her feet yet, as I prefer that she keep her little hooves on the
floor unless I specifically ask her to lift one up for cleaning, etc.
Panda also loves to play fetch games and to play "Panda Catch", where she
runs from one person to another, circling around behind the person and
coming into heel position, receiving a c/t, and dashing off to the next
person to repeat the game! She also likes to play heeling games with me,
and to play "Show Me", where I put a hand on her back and let her lead me to
any object in a room or area that she thinks I might want to know about.
When she puts her little nose on an object, like a door, a gate, a ladder, a
mounting block, a traffic cone, a chair, etc., I c/t and I name the object.
Then, after a while, I can say to her, "Panda, find the 'gate'" or "Find the
'chair'", and she will take me to that object and get a c/t.
In the house Panda will lie down on the carpet next to me, lean on me just
like a dog does, and take a nice nap, complete with little horse dreams.
When we're in offices or other public places, I do have to watch her around
ornamental potted plants, real ones or artificial ones, as she will
sometimes give in to the temptation to take a bite in passing. If I know
they're there, I can tell her to leave them alone, and she will do that.
But if I don't know they're there and she thinks they look like they were
put there just for little horses to snack on, she will gladly partake.
Since many ornamental plants are not safe for horses to eat, especially the
plastic ones, I do have to do more work on this distraction.
Your Mitzie sounds delightful, and I'm glad that you are having such a great
time training her and enjoying her ever-changing level of maturity. It is
always fun to speak with the professional guide dog trainers, as long as
they are open to the concept of owner-training, which most of the ones I
have met are, (although they may not be able to come right out and say that,
as their organizations don't want the liability of being seen as vouching
for the competence of an owner-trained guide team.)
Anyway, as you have surely noticed, this group has quite a few
owner-trainers of guide and service animals as members. And we all, whether
we are professional trainers, owner-trainers, or trainer-handlers of service
or guide animals, love to talk about our training/handling techniques,
exchange suggestions and support, and just plain enjoy a positive and
reinforcing atmosphere of appreciation for each other and for our animal
partners.
We're thrilled to have you with us, and hope we can help and support you and
give you a place to celebrate your successes and plan ways to develop the
great abilities of your young star pupil. Your plans for teaching Mitzie
sound ambitious, but perfectly appropriate for a fully-functional guide dog.
Best,
Ann
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tamara Smith-Kinney" <tamara.8024@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <vi-clicker-trainers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 5:53 PM
Subject: (VICT) Re: Clyde.
> Well, said, Ann! I call a loud second to the praise of others.
>
> Panda is really starting to sell me on the guide horse notion. Although =
> I
> can't imagine how you ever manage to walk down the street, what with all =
> the
> oohs and aahs. /lol/ It's daunting enough having a nontraditional =
> breed of
> dog guide. Now that her manner is more businesslike, we don't stop so =
> often
> to answer questions. We do leave a lot of talk about "poodle" or =
> "curly" or
> "lovely" or "guide dog???" in our wake. /lol/ At least people aren't
> constantly trying to take our picture. You must actually have to plan =
> time
> for that into your travel schedule. It's cool that you have such a =
> great
> attitude about it, and Panda probably doesn't mind the admiration at =
> all.
>
> I really like the many-pocketed vest idea. Juggling cane, leash, and =
> dog
> made me feel like a traveling Three Stooges marathon some days when we =
> were
> working on basics while doing socialization. Trying to figure out how =
> to
> treat gracefully made me want to tear my hair out -- thus the extensive
> verbal praise. When we started going into the corner market to begin
> learning indoor manners and actually doing small errands that involved
> exchange money... My curious george helped ever so much by taking =
> advantage
> of my distraction to try to stick her nose in whatever she wasn't =
> supposed
> to. Sheesh! She knew her obedience and responded correctly in our =
> usual
> work places, but new adventures were too exciting for her to be troubled =
> by
> all that boring stuff... We're long past it now, and she remembers her
> manners most of the time -- and under increasing levels of distraction.
> Very nice, an getting better all the time.
>
> The best place to work on refining our indoor manners is meat, the
> neighborhood place to go for high quality pet supplies. It is chock =
> full of
> happy distractions and excitement. I used meat to teach her "find the =
> door"
> and "show me the door" as well as "off!" since she just has to see =
> what's on
> the counter... Now we go in harness, and I just ask for a bit higher =
> level
> of docility and proper behavior before I remove the handle so she can =
> have
> more freedom. If she's really behaving herself, I will let her look =
> around
> on her own so long as she keeps her nose out of the treats and keeps
> listening to me. The past month has offered all sorts of people
> distractions, dog distractions, and even an almost fight which gave me =
> an
> opportunity to keep her calm and reinforce the notion that she has =
> bigger
> responsiblities than the other dogs. She's grasping that enough that =
> she
> did very well being in harness when we took our friend Maggie the
> goldendoodle to the playground with us. She was perfectly cheerful =
> about
> the whole thing, even though Maggie is allowed to go the block and a =
> half
> off leash (she stops and sits at street corners) and was running around
> excitedly. Mitsy's positive attitude pleased me more than her good
> behavior. I wholeheatedly agree with you about fostering a positive
> attitude to the job; moreso with guiding. It's a tough gig, and I don't
> want to make it more stressful than it already is.
>
> Speaking of meat, the owner just today gave me a card from one of her =
> other
> clients -- a professional guide dog trainer! So I have more motivation =
> to
> formalize our training program and methodology before I contact her. Or
> maybe just to express it more formally. I'm an abstract sort of girl =
> and
> think more in terms of theory -- constantly tested against my own
> observations -- and a view of the end goal, while the steps I'm taking =
> to
> achieve that goal are secondary. It works for me, in that I have a high
> success rate, but I do have a tough time translating into terms more
> practially-minded individuals find comforting. Especially since my =
> current
> training project is guide dog. Also, it won't hurt me at all to think =
> about
> it from a more practical angle, especially as we refine our teamwork and
> etiquette over the next few months and broaden our horizons to face
> ever-increasing challenges. The mall! The Max! And even ... =
> escalators.
> I also want to teach her to guide on hikes and camping trips. And I =
> want to
> expose her to a stable and horses. And ... =20
>
> Tami Smith-Kinney
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vi-clicker-trainers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:vi-clicker-trainers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ann Edie
> Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 8:18 AM
> To: vi-clicker-trainers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: (VICT) Re: Clyde.
>
> Hi, Ridge,
>
> I always treat with the hand on the opposite side from where the animal =
> is=20
> working. If you treat with the hand on the same side as the animal, he =
> will
>
> naturally tend to look back at your hand going to your pocket or pouch, =
> and=20
> tend to get out of position, especially for guide work. If you carry =
> your=20
> treat pouch or use a pocket on your opposite (right) side, the dog will =
> tend
>
> to stay forward to look across your body in anticipation of the coming=20
> treat.
>
> One thing you have to be careful of though. You have to be deliberate =
> about
>
> not letting the dog come across your body and come to your hand to take =
> the=20
> treat, but rather to present the treat just where you want the dog's =
> head to
>
> be. This is what is really meant by treating for position.
>
> All of my animals stop when they hear the click. This is fine. I just=20
> click at a time and place where I want them to stop anyway. For =
> example, I=20
> encourage or use praise words while I want a behavior to continue and =
> then=20
> when we reach a curb and the guide stops, I can click and treat for the=20
> entire chain of behavior which led to the curb stop. This has the added =
>
> benefit of keeping stopping at curbs on a really high rate of =
> reinforcement.
>
> Of course, when I am first teaching a new behavior which is not yet=20
> established and ready to be made part of a chain, I would c/t after just =
>
> that little behavior is complete, even if that means a lot of stops =
> during a
>
> walk. It makes things clear to the trainee, and it keeps the mood =
> positive=20
> and happy, which is what I want above all in my working partner. I =
> never=20
> want her to feel that her work is something she has to do, or else...! =
> I=20
> want her to feel that every time we work together is a great opportunity =
> to=20
> show me what she knows and can do, and to get praise and treats of=20
> appreciation and thanks.
>
> Recently, we have had lots of snow, preceded by ice, and followed by=20
> freezing rain and rain. All of this makes for some treacherous walking. =
>
> Panda has been so good about altering our regular routes, sometimes on =
> my=20
> request, and sometimes on her own initiative, to go around places where =
> snow
>
> is piled, or where there is ice under water, or where rain water has =
> frozen=20
> into glassy ice; it has been a true joy to go out walking with her! And =
> I=20
> never thought I would be saying that it is a joy to go out walking with=20
> anyone on icey streets and sidewalks!
>
> There is one place, for example, where there is a raised stretch of=20
> sidewalk, or what would seem to be designed as a sidewalk, except that =
> the=20
> local authorities seem to think it was put there as a depot for storing =
> snow
>
> plowed off the street on one side and the parking lot on the other side. =
>
> Generally, Panda takes me across a wide parking lot entrance and to the=20
> curb, and then up onto that stretch of sidewalk. But now that is =
> totally=20
> impossible.
>
> Her first solution to this puzzle was to offer going to the right of the =
>
> sidewalk, and walking along the street. But I decided to try going to =
> the=20
> left instead, through the large parking lot. Unlike some dogs, Panda =
> did=20
> not object to this departure from the routine, but said, "Sure, I can do =
>
> that!", and off we went. We did have to dodge a few cars in the parking =
>
> lot, including a couple of sightseers who deliberately dog us just to =
> get a=20
> better look at the little horse. But we parallelled the sidewalk and at =
> the
>
> end Panda brought me back to the downcurb in position to cross the next=20
> parking lot entrance and go on our way.
>
> I clicked for her ready response to my suggestion to try "left", and =
> then=20
> c/t'd again when she stopped or changed course to avoid vehicles, (after =
> we=20
> had safely passed them, of course.) I c/t'd again when she stopped at =
> the=20
> next crossing.
>
> Now, as the snow is still there, Panda automatically takes me to the =
> left of
>
> the sidewalk after stopping as close to the curb as the mounds of snow =
> and=20
> icey skirts permit.
>
> I work with Panda on my left side, and my gloved left hand remains on =
> the=20
> harness handle throughout. I wear a hunter's vest which has large =
> pockets=20
> to keep treats in. I can wear this vest over my winter jacket. I leave =
> my=20
> right hand ungloved, because I have never gotten the hang of retrieving =
> a=20
> tiny treat from my pocket and delivering it with a glove on. The vest=20
> allows me to keep my bbare hand in my jacket pocket--not the treat=20
> pocket--between clicks, so that hand doesn't freeze. It is a lot easier =
> for
>
> me to reach into the large vest pocket for the treat than it would be to =
>
> reach into a treat pouch or a pocket that was under my jacket. I find =
> the=20
> vest really useful, as it goes on over whatever I am wearing, a T-shirt =
> in=20
> summer, a heavy jacket in winter, or even a sweater or dress for more =
> dressy
>
> occasions. (Okay, it does look a little strange over my "Sunday best".) =
>
> But I do have vests in several sizes and several colors to match my =
> outfit=20
> and the season, larger ones for over winter layers and smaller ones for=20
> summer wear. I get the vests at the Army-Navy Surplus Store, and they =
> have=20
> become sort of the uniform of many horse clicker trainers, at least in =
> our=20
> local area.
>
> If you are using a cane in your right hand, this may make it awkward to=20
> treat with that hand. But I guess you could hold the cane under your =
> arm=20
> while you delivered the treat. My solution for the need to hold the =
> clicker
>
> as well is to use a tongue click once your dog is clicker wise. That=20
> eliminates one thing that you need to carry and juggle. Or you can =
> mount a=20
> clicker on your harness handle if you can activate it with that hand. =
> But I
>
> don't think you are using a harness with Clyde yet, right? Some people =
> also
>
> fix a clicker to their leash, though.
>
> Good luck, and have fun experimenting to see what works. I do think an=20
> organized approach to training--having lesson plans, a list of the =
> behaviors
>
> in order of teaching, and a journal of each day's training--is the best =
> way=20
> to approach owner-training a service animal. Clyde sounds like a good =
> guy,=20
> as far as temperament and trainability are concerned. So he sounds like =
> a=20
> good candidate for investing the time and effort it will take to train =
> him.
>
> It was truly sad about how Buckley was taken from you, sort of under =
> false=20
> pretences. I'm glad that you now have another partner to work with, and =
>
> hope for the very best for the two of you.
>
> Best of fortune in the New Year!
> Ann
>
> ----- Original Message -----=20
> From: "Ridge Euler" <ridge_e@xxxxxxx>
> To: <vi-clicker-trainers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 9:22 AM
> Subject: (VICT) Re: Clyde.
>
>
>> hello Melinda,
>> I always have a gentle leader on Clyde when we are out and about..... =
> I=20
>> never leave the house without one. we are getting better. if he =
> stops to
>
>> sniff I say "come on" or "lets go" and with a little tug on the leash =
> ( I=20
>> use a 3 foot leash) he usually comes right away. I think the problem =
> is=20
>> more me.... I don't know when he has to eliminate. so I think once we =
> get
>
>> that down better in the mornings our walk will be better. I walked =
> him to
>
>> the post office yesterday and that was better. not as much sniffing.=20
>> when I try and treat him he stops and takes the treat. I guess it is=20
>> click for movement treat for position. because he wont take a treat =
> while
>
>> moving.
>>
>> does anyone have any suggestions about how to treat across your body?? =
> I=20
>> have been working Clyde on my left which is the first time I have =
> tried=20
>> this. I cant treat with my left hand because I am missing fingers and =
> a=20
>> thumb on that hand I have to treat from my right....... this takes =
> longer
>
>> to deliver the treat. also I am having trouble getting him to target =
> my=20
>> hand. anyone know anything else I should be doing??
>>
>> Ridge and Clyde
>> ----- Original Message -----=20
>> From: Melinda Rauch<mailto:mrauch@xxxxxxxxx>
>> To:=20
>>
> vi-clicker-trainers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:vi-clicker-trainers@xxxxxxxxxxxx=
> g>
>> Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 6:28 PM
>> Subject: (VICT) Clyde.
>>
>>
>> Hi Ridge,
>>
>> Melinda and Smokey, My Mellow Fellow here,
>>
>> Ridge, I'm so glad that Clyde is doing so well. I don't have any =
> real
>> training advice for you, but wanted to say that it sounds like the =
> two of
>> you are doing well, and that's so great. Keep up the good work.
>>
>> Actually, now that I think of it, smiles, I do have one bit of =
> advice.=20
>> You
>> say that he sniffs at times. Have you ever considered using a head=20
>> collar,
>> like a Gentle Leader with him? I've heard that it can really help =
> the
>> sniffing problem because you can keep better control of his =
> nose/head.
>> Just a thought.
>>
>> Take care, and be safe out there!
>>
>> Your friends always,
>>
>>
>> Melinda and Smokey My Mellow Fellow and April, now our angel dog.
>> mrauch@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:mrauch@xxxxxxxxx>
>>
>>
>> --=20
>> No virus found in this outgoing message.
>> Checked by AVG.
>> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.11/1201 - Release Date:=20
>> 12/28/07 11:51 AM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>=20
>
>
>
>
>
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