[SI-LIST] Re: Layout service recommendations
- From: "Shawn Arnold" <shawnarn@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <Raymond.Anderson@xxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 15:57:05 -0700
Ray is exactly correct.
Coming from the other side of the fence, 19 years of PCB Service Bureau =
Design experience with a concentration in SI/EMI/ESD, the design =
engineer is "expected" to "hang out" with the PCB designer. In many =
cases comapnies will send the engineer to the opposite coast for a week =
at a time to do just this. I have gone as far as taking a laptop to the =
customer site, opposite coast, and worked there also. As we have seen =
from this list, every SI engineer/consultant has their own opinion on =
how to get the job done, and the customer is always right. After 3 or 4 =
designs the engineers would come out for final review only. Constraints =
based databases were preferred, but few and far between. Service Bureaus =
will, and should, push back for hard documentation on the rules to be =
followed, no vague fluff allowed. A quality SI Service Bureau will =
charge 20-100% higher prices to cover tools and talent, get over it.
Due to my current position I will not comment on the quality of work at =
particular Service Bureaus.
Sincerely,
Shawn Arnold
PSD Sales Business Development Mgr
Cadence Design Systems
408.428.5696 office
408.348.4652 cell
Cadence
how big can you dream?
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Ray Anderson [mailto:Raymond.Anderson@xxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 3:16 PM
To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Layout service recommendations
I don't have any recommendations on high-speed layout houses,
but do have just a couple of comments on the topic of laying
out high-speed boards.
1) Even though I work for a large corporation with $100k+ EDA tools,
budget, bodies and equipment it usually isn't possible to
"toss the design over the wall" to the PCB layout guys/gals and hope
to get back a board layout that works as envisioned.
=20
2) Standard practice around here is for a designer and/or SI engineer=20
to "live" with the layout person at their workstation for several=20
(or more) days while the layout is in progress. There are so many=20
things that can't be described with a set of canned design rules and=20
that depend on the design/SI engineer's intuition and intimate =
knowledge=20
of his design that you really can't expect a board layout guy to do =
things
"your way" without lots of personal attention.
=20
3) That being said, an experienced layout guy/gal who has many =
high-speed
designs under their belt and has worked with you numerous times
can come closer to producing what you want on their own than someone
you've never worked with, so you might get away with somewhat less
personal attention to detail during the layout process, but almost
assuredly you will still need to be there a good portion of the time
to make sure things come out as you envision. (You will also find =
that
the more complex the board, the higher the frequency of operation and =
the denser the layout, the more time you will need to invest at the=20
layout workstation.
=20
=20
Anyway, thats my $0.02 worth. It will be interesting here other =
opinions
on the topic.
=20
-Ray Anderson
Sun Microsystems Inc.
>
>Being almost ready to go to layout I've been thinking about the issues =
of
>sending a design out to a service bureau instead of doing it in-house.
>Unless you work for a large corporation (I don't) you might not have =
access
>to the $100K+ EDA tools and support infrastructure (budget, bodies,
>equipment, etc.) you might need to produce good designs that work "out =
of
>the box".
>
>My particular design is a small 5x7 in board that has a 1.5Gb/s front =
end
>which gets deserialized and fed into FPGA's etc. Most internal =
frequencies
>are in the 100 to 200 MHz range, with wide busses.
>
>Is it reasonable to assume that a good layout service can get this =
right the
>first time? What should one look for? Are there any rules-of-thumb in
>terms of cost? What guarantees should one demand? What should be the
>hand-off process? What's the best way to assure success?
>
>Much like the list of recommended PCB houses, it might be nice to =
assemble a
>list of high-speed-capable layout service houses. I'll volunteer to =
compile
>and post to this list.
>
>Thank you,
>
>
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> Martin Euredjian
> eCinema Systems, Inc.
> voice: 661-305-9320
> fax: 661-775-4876
> martin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> www.ecinemasys.com
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>
>
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