I must, respectfully disagree! I can't see how that angulation allows a dog to herd better! I am just not seeing it!!! Agree with you about the german conformation ring and double handling from what I learned. Agree with you about the German dogs having conformation and working titles. How many US dogs have a ScH 3 title and a Championship? Answer-One. But, a crapload of German dogs have a ScH 3 title and a VA (like a Select dog). However, Funny thing is..on the working dog forums the WL German dogs who are not bred for show ring looks like the West german lines bash the west german ScH 3 titles as being weak and state that the WG SL couldn't hold a candle to the East German/Czech working ability! You not what is kind of cool....in order to get a VA rating (like a Select) the dog must show up with these things called progeny groups. they are only given a VA if they are producing nice dogs!! But, i am not saying their system is perfect. I am just trying to straddle the different worlds as I learn..... Sara ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2011. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in any post. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org SUBSCRIPTION:http://showgsd.org/mail.html NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================