It's not a difference in the "two types of shows", Ed. It's the judges. 75% of the ab judges don't know a GS from a Malinois. You need to find out about the judge before you enter a good dog at an ab show. I know of at least three dogs who placed at the national who were put up this past weekend at ab shows.. It's not the show------it's that person in the center of the ring. In addition, a good judge doesn't need a huge ring to find the best dog even though we prefer it. Our standard states, "At a walk, it covers a great deal of ground, with long stride of both hind legs and forelegs." Actually, about the only element that cannot be seen in a small ring is rear extension. We need to get more of the good ones into the ab ring, but only under the good judges. There are other judges at that show who, while not judging shepherds that day, will see what wins and possibly take notice and learn something. And talk-----you wouldn't believe some of the things some judges say about German shepherds. Peggy will attest to that. With a good one winning, the lunch table talk will turn around and we can "accentuate the positive". BTW, a 2x select dog won a group 4 this weekend. It's getting better. Carolyn Edwin Hill <edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: My one and only Canadian/American Champion was not sloppy in the rear, he was clean coming and going, his temperament was decent, his side gait was correct ( not lifty)..he was a bit on the leggy side and could have had a deeper body,one ear tilted in a bit, he did well at his futurity and maturity...winning his class both years ( there was no reserve in his day) and he won a large novice class at the National in 97 under Ms. Amidon...so in my opinion he was over all more than decent....however when we went to all-breed shows we usually, but not always, got our butts kicked....I don't care how you spin it..there was and there still is a difference between the two types of shows...we have one standard, we should have one type of wolf...eh..I mean dog.......last week of school then two weeks of FREEDOM!...too bad we do not get snow days in California!...FB ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2005. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org ============================================================================ --------------------------------- Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2005. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org ============================================================================