[ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: All Breed VS. Specialty
- From: carolyn mckenna <carolynmckenna@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: john@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 18:48:14 -0800 (PST)
John, I so agree that some judges simply do not know movement, but
as to ring size, you must include the beginning of the sentence -------
"AT .A WALK, it covers .........". We can see a walk in a pretty small
ring. As I said, about the only thing we cannot see in a small ring is
rear extension. Many of the judges years ago walked the dogs. Helen
M. Fisher, when she judged an AB show, had the class walk the first
half of the ring. There is nothing that can be covered up at a walk.
There is a great deal that can be overlooked or hidden with speed
alone. Sure, I prefer the specialty shows where we see a preponderence
of good dogs. My point is that we are not two separate breeds, and that
our specialty judges need to get out there and help bring us back to one
breed. This can be done only if judges who really know the breed get in
there and become approved for other breeds so that the clubs can hire
them. Our shepherd people need to quit whining and start learning.
Shepherd folks are notorious for leaving the show as soon as they are
through showing. They might be surprised at what they may learn from
watching other breeds, groups, BIS, some good, some not so good, but
always a learning experience. Many of our GS folks have tunnel vision,
and that does not necessarily lead to either knowledge or progress.
Carolyn
.
John Ayotte <john@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: While I agree with Carolyn that the
differences are mostly due to the
judges, I think that the ring size and footing plays a more important
role than she implies. A really good judge may be able to find the
best structured dogs in a small ring where the dogs cannot really get
into any sort of stride. Most judges, and most observers, need to see
the dog move where it has room to use itself to be sure that the
structure they see is really put together correctly to provide the
movement called for in the standard. When you can't truly see the
movement, you will be forced to judge the dogs on other virtues and
weight those other virtues disproportionately. You can't tell if a
GSD "...covers a great deal of ground, with long stride of both hind
legs and forelegs..." if there is no ground in the ring to cover :-)
On the other hand, there is no doubt that there are may all-breed
judges who do not know good GSD movement when they see it, and/or do
not place as much emphasis on it as the standard calls for.
Let's not even muddy the waters in this discussion with the many
exhibitors and judges who's opinion of what good movement is, or
who's interpretation of the standard is distorted... I'm not in the
mood for that holy war today :-)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
John Ayotte
john@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Frankenhaus German Shepherds
http://www.jmadesign.com/Frankenhaus
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Dec 12, 2005, at 11:56 AM, carolyn mckenna wrote:
> It's not a difference in the "two types of shows", Ed. It's
> the judges.
> 75% of the ab judges don't know a GS from a Malinois. You need to
> find out about the judge before you enter a good dog at an ab show.
> I know of at least three dogs who placed at the national who were
> put
> up this past weekend at ab shows.. It's not the show------it's
> that person
> in the center of the ring. In addition, a good judge doesn't need
> a huge
> ring to find the best dog even though we prefer it. Our standard
> states,
> "At a walk, it covers a great deal of ground, with long stride of
> both hind
> legs and forelegs." Actually, about the only element that cannot
> be seen
> in a small ring is rear extension.
>
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ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY
MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS
PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY
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