[pure-silver] Re: old papers and new papers
- From: Kimberly Schneider Photography <info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 18:34:22 -0500
Actually, someone told me that is comparable to fomaspeed. Slipped my mind
before...
Kimberly Schneider
www.kimberlyjschneider.com
917-478-5633
Sent from my iPhone
> On Nov 30, 2014, at 4:33 PM, Bob Marvin <marvbej@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> Is Fomatone the same as the re-branded Foma paper sold by Freestyle as Arista
> EDU?
>
>
> Sent from the Samsung Galaxy Rugby Pro, an AT&T LTE smartphone
>
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Date: 11/30/2014 4:03 PM (GMT-05:00)
> To: pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [pure-silver] Re: old papers and new papers
>
>
> For those of us using cold heads (and enlarging), it's a bit slow. On the
> other hand, if you're contact printing or using a condenser, I think it's
> definitely worth checking out.
>
> I've found Fomatone to be the one multigrade paper left that still resembles
> some of those beautiful old papers. Unfortunately, there is only 1 US
> distributor of it, and they only order as much as they think they'll sell, so
> having a steady supply of it can be challenging.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Jeffrey Thorns" <puresilver@xxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2014 2:30pm
> To: pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [pure-silver] Re: old papers and new papers
>
> Can you give us an idea of how much slower Lodima is than 'normal' enlarging
> paper? 2 stops? 5 stops? 10 stops? Or is it more related to UV output?
>
> You mention someone 'developing a bulb with enough UV' to make shorter
> enlarging times. Is this a function of not having a frosted coating on the
> bulb? Or are we talking florescent?
>
> (As a side-note, I have been using a PH213 bulb in my D5 for years. Average
> time to expose is 3-5sec. well-stopped-down, so I have some hope that
> exposing Lodima isn't too bad. Another trick for short enlarging times is to
> use the kind of bulb that is used as a modeling light in flash heads - small
> but very intense. Of course, be careful of overheating your neg! Once you hit
> 250W you're in danger territory.)
>
> Michael A. Smith and Paula Chamlee November 30, 2014 6:31 AM
> Papers:
>
> It is not just the silver content that affects the range of grays. back in
> the 1970s chemicals such as cadmium were added to the emulsion. The addition
> of cadmium to photographic papers was disallowed by the EPA because of its
> toxicity to the environment.
>
> The best (most luminous) photographic papers have a high Dmax and a long
> smooth gray scale. In recent years--recent here meaning at least 60 or 70
> years, this has been almost impossible to achieve with all bromide and
> chloro-bromide enlarging papers. The only papers that achieved true
> luminosity were silver chloride papers, the last of which was Kodak's Azo.
>
> To save Azo from being discontinued, we (my wife Paula Chamlee who is also a
> photographer) and I reluctantly (it is a long store) became dealers of Azo,
> the only paper we used.
>
> About eight or so years ago Bruce Barlow wrote an article for View Camera
> Magazine about photographic papers. He made the best print he could on every
> paper then manufactured and then developed the paper in a number of different
> developers. He then asked a number of photographers which print they thought
> was the best print.
>
> I asked Bruce if he had tested Azo. He had not. He volunteered to come to our
> home/studio in Pennsylvania and he brought with him the test negative. Before
> we printed on Azo he asked us to select which of the many prints he brought
> with him that we thought best. I selected the one that was the general
> consensus "best." Paula selected another. However, the selected prints were
> almost identical.
>
> We then went into the darkroom and printed the negative on Azo. We developed
> the print in Amidol using the formula I had "developed" in the 1970s after
> serious testing.
>
> Result: The gray tones were so beautiful that Bruce realized that all of his
> previous test prints were so inferior to the Azo print that none of them
> would have left our darkroom. The trashcan was the appropriate destination
> for them. Bruce purchased a 500-sheet box of Azo.
>
> All of the great prints that Edward Weston made were printed on silver
> chloride paper. Ansel Adams best prints, from the late 1930s and early-to-mid
> 1940s were printed on silver chloride paper.
>
> In 2004 Kodak discontinued Azo. Because of the articles I had written about
> Azo, hundreds of photographers were now using it. Paula and I had a 8'x14'
> freezer full of the Super XX film we bought from Kodak when it was
> discontinued in 1994 (bought with credit cards that took five years to pay
> off--we are committed !), and Azo. But we set about trying to get a new
> silver chloride paper made. After six years of R&D we were successful. We
> believe that our silver chloride paper, "LODIMA," is even superior to Azo. It
> has deeper blacks and a longer, smoother gray scale. We are now in the
> process of having the third run of the paper made. Admittedly, production has
> not always gone as smoothly as we would have liked.
>
> We have had LODIMA made in Grade 2 and Grade 3 The original test run of
> LODIMA was incredible. The first major production run could have had a higher
> Dmax. It was beyond "okay," but not what we really wanted. The next run does
> have the higher Dmax. It has such a long scale, however, that the contrast
> for thin negatives could be greater. Photographers who make negatives for
> platinum printing have found the LODIMA Grade 2 to match their platinum
> prints. A few of them even prefer LODIMA to their platinum prints.
>
> Because our Super XX film has an extremely high film base plus fog level
> Paula and I need a paper with greater contrast. So we are now having a Grade
> 4 paper made. We are also having a new run of Grade 3 made as our inventory
> is almost totally gone. We do have plenty of Grade 2 still in stock in our
> freezer.
>
> The paper is made in Germany. The only way we can have the paper made is to
> ask photographers to place "pre-production" orders, as we cannot afford to
> buy the paper ourselves. We do not ask for payment until we need to pay for
> the paper, but we need to know what sizes and quantities people want. We can
> have these sizes made: 8x10, 9x11, 10x12, 11x14, 8x20, 12x20, 14x17, 16x20,
> and 20x24. We could also have other sizes made as well. We do not make 4x5 or
> 5x7, figuring that users can cut down 8x10, but we could have it made if the
> orders for those sizes are sufficient
>
> Silver chloride paper is a "slow" paper. As such it is used to make contact
> prints. Some years ago a photographer who had taken our workshop developed a
> light for enlargers that was strong enough in the UV spectrum so that
> enlargements could easily be made on silver chloride paper. Others, those
> with patience for long exposure times have enlarged on it with conventional
> enlargers. Paula and I prefer to only make contact prints—in large part
> because of the results that can only be obtained with silver chloride paper.
> We make them in many sizes--from the 6x7 cm size that Paula sometimes uses
> when we travel overseas for short periods on up to the 18x22 that I have
> occasionally used.
>
> It used to be said that "there is nothing as beautiful in photography as a
> contact print." This was not because of the sharpness and clarity of contact
> prints, although that is surely a factor. It is mainly because of the tonal
> quality of silver chloride paper.
>
> Michael A. Smith
>
> On 11/30/14 7:17 AM, bobkiss @caribsurf.com wrote:
>
> bobkiss @caribsurf.com November 30, 2014 4:17 AM
> I think the important phrase here is, "...certain qualities of richness
> in gray tonal values..." This is not referring to Dmax. It may be referring
> to silvery, subtle, separated, midtones. The problem is that it may be very
> difficult to quantify and measure these qualities. I feel the same about the
> silver rich papers on which I printed during the 70s and early 80s yet agree
> that it may not be measurable and therefore not provable. Is it the rose
> color of memory or was it true? "Tis a mystery!"
> CHEERS!
> BOB
>
>
> Janet Gable Cull November 29, 2014 3:19 PM
> I'm reading an article Les Myers sent me (from Online Photographer) about
> Voja Mitrovic. Here is an interesting statement by Peter Turnley: " It was
> also a time when the highest quantity of silver was in printing papers. Voja
> has indicated that there are certain qualities of richness in gray tonal
> values that he could never achieve with today’s papers, that he was able to
> obtain in the late 'seventies and early 'eighties.
>
> Do any of you know which of today's papers are higher in silver content? or
> most like the older papers he may have been referring to? He didn't say
> specifically which papers he liked using, but did refer to the change (down)
> at the introduction of multi-grade papers.
> Here is a link to the article, if you're interested. I found it most
> interesting to find that many of the "greats" didn't do their own printing.
> That's not what I'd have imagined. Anyway, I have enjoyed it, and hope you
> do, too.
> http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2014/11/top-classic-yoja-mitrovic-printer-to-the-greats.html
> Janet
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