[pure-silver] Re: old papers and new papers
- From: info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
- To: pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 16:59:54 -0500 (EST)
I haven't tried the Arista, but from what I hear, no, at least not the 131,
which is what I use. Foma does make other papers, so maybe it's one of those?
-----Original Message-----
From: "Bob Marvin" <marvbej@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2014 4:33pm
To: pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [pure-silver] Re: old papers and new papers
Is Fomatone the same as the re-branded Foma paper sold by Freestyle as Arista
EDU?
Sent from the Samsung Galaxy Rugby Pro, an AT&T LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: 11/30/2014 4:03 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [pure-silver] Re: old papers and new papers
For those of us using cold heads (and enlarging), it's a bit slow. On the other
hand, if you're contact printing or using a condenser, I think it's definitely
worth checking out.
I've found Fomatone to be the one multigrade paper left that still resembles
some of those beautiful old papers. Unfortunately, there is only 1 US
distributor of it, and they only order as much as they think they'll sell, so
having a steady supply of it can be challenging.
-----Original Message-----
From: "Jeffrey Thorns" <puresilver@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2014 2:30pm
To: pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [pure-silver] Re: old papers and new papers
Can you give us an idea of how much slower Lodima is than 'normal' enlarging
paper? 2 stops? 5 stops? 10 stops? Or is it more related to UV output?
You mention someone 'developing a bulb with enough UV' to make shorter
enlarging times. Is this a function of not having a frosted coating on the
bulb? Or are we talking florescent?
(As a side-note, I have been using a PH213 bulb in my D5 for years. Average
time to expose is 3-5sec. well-stopped-down, so I have some hope that exposing
Lodima isn't too bad. Another trick for short enlarging times is to use the
kind of bulb that is used as a modeling light in flash heads - small but very
intense. Of course, be careful of overheating your neg! Once you hit 250W
you're in danger territory.)
[ Michael A. Smith and Paula Chamlee ](
mailto:michaelandpaula@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx )
November 30, 2014 6:31 AM
Papers:
It is not just the silver content that affects the range of grays. back in the
1970s chemicals such as cadmium were added to the emulsion. The addition of
cadmium to photographic papers was disallowed by the EPA because of its
toxicity to the environment.
The best (most luminous) photographic papers have a high Dmax and a long
smooth gray scale. In recent years--recent here meaning at least 60 or 70
years, this has been almost impossible to achieve with all bromide and
chloro-bromide enlarging papers. The only papers that achieved true luminosity
were silver chloride papers, the last of which was Kodak's Azo.
To save Azo from being discontinued, we (my wife Paula Chamlee who is also a
photographer) and I reluctantly (it is a long store) became dealers of Azo, the
only paper we used.
About eight or so years ago Bruce Barlow wrote an article for View Camera
Magazine about photographic papers. He made the best print he could on every
paper then manufactured and then developed the paper in a number of different
developers. He then asked a number of photographers which print they thought
was the best print.
I asked Bruce if he had tested Azo. He had not. He volunteered to come to our
home/studio in Pennsylvania and he brought with him the test negative. Before
we printed on Azo he asked us to select which of the many prints he brought
with him that we thought best. I selected the one that was the general
consensus "best." Paula selected another. However, the selected prints were
almost identical.
We then went into the darkroom and printed the negative on Azo. We developed
the print in Amidol using the formula I had "developed" in the 1970s after
serious testing.
Result: The gray tones were so beautiful that Bruce realized that all of his
previous test prints were so inferior to the Azo print that none of them would
have left our darkroom. The trashcan was the appropriate destination for them.
Bruce purchased a 500-sheet box of Azo.
All of the great prints that Edward Weston made were printed on silver
chloride paper. Ansel Adams best prints, from the late 1930s and early-to-mid
1940s were printed on silver chloride paper.
In 2004 Kodak discontinued Azo. Because of the articles I had written about
Azo, hundreds of photographers were now using it. Paula and I had a 8'x14'
freezer full of the Super XX film we bought from Kodak when it was discontinued
in 1994 (bought with credit cards that took five years to pay off--we are
committed !), and Azo. But we set about trying to get a new silver chloride
paper made. After six years of R&D we were successful. We believe that our
silver chloride paper, "LODIMA," is even superior to Azo. It has deeper blacks
and a longer, smoother gray scale. We are now in the process of having the
third run of the paper made. Admittedly, production has not always gone as
smoothly as we would have liked.
We have had LODIMA made in Grade 2 and Grade 3 The original test run of LODIMA
was incredible. The first major production run could have had a higher Dmax. It
was beyond "okay," but not what we really wanted. The next run does have the
higher Dmax. It has such a long scale, however, that the contrast for thin
negatives could be greater. Photographers who make negatives for platinum
printing have found the LODIMA Grade 2 to match their platinum prints. A few of
them even prefer LODIMA to their platinum prints.
Because our Super XX film has an extremely high film base plus fog level Paula
and I need a paper with greater contrast. So we are now having a Grade 4 paper
made. We are also having a new run of Grade 3 made as our inventory is almost
totally gone. We do have plenty of Grade 2 still in stock in our freezer.
The paper is made in Germany. The only way we can have the paper made is to
ask photographers to place "pre-production" orders, as we cannot afford to buy
the paper ourselves. We do not ask for payment until we need to pay for the
paper, but we need to know what sizes and quantities people want. We can have
these sizes made: 8x10, 9x11, 10x12, 11x14, 8x20, 12x20, 14x17, 16x20, and
20x24. We could also have other sizes made as well. We do not make 4x5 or 5x7,
figuring that users can cut down 8x10, but we could have it made if the orders
for those sizes are sufficient
Silver chloride paper is a "slow" paper. As such it is used to make contact
prints. Some years ago a photographer who had taken our workshop developed a
light for enlargers that was strong enough in the UV spectrum so that
enlargements could easily be made on silver chloride paper. Others, those with
patience for long exposure times have enlarged on it with conventional
enlargers. Paula and I prefer to only make contact prints—in large part because
of the results that can only be obtained with silver chloride paper. We make
them in many sizes--from the 6x7 cm size that Paula sometimes uses when we
travel overseas for short periods on up to the 18x22 that I have occasionally
used.
It used to be said that "there is nothing as beautiful in photography as a
contact print." This was not because of the sharpness and clarity of contact
prints, although that is surely a factor. It is mainly because of the tonal
quality of silver chloride paper.
Michael A. Smith
On 11/30/14 7:17 AM, bobkiss @caribsurf.com wrote:
[ bobkiss @caribsurf.com ]( mailto:bobkiss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx )
November 30, 2014 4:17 AM
I think the important phrase here is, "...certain qualities of richness in
gray tonal values..." This is not referring to Dmax. It may be referring to
silvery, subtle, separated, midtones. The problem is that it may be very
difficult to quantify and measure these qualities. I feel the same about the
silver rich papers on which I printed during the 70s and early 80s yet agree
that it may not be measurable and therefore not provable. Is it the rose color
of memory or was it true? "Tis a mystery!"
CHEERS!
BOB
[ Janet Gable Cull ]( mailto:janetgcull@xxxxxxxxx )
November 29, 2014 3:19 PM
I'm reading an article Les Myers sent me (from Online Photographer) about Voja
Mitrovic. Here is an interesting statement by Peter Turnley: " It was also a
time when the highest quantity of silver was in printing papers. Voja has
indicated that there are certain qualities of richness in gray tonal values
that he could never achieve with today’s papers, that he was able to obtain in
the late 'seventies and early 'eighties.
Do any of you know which of today's papers are higher in silver content? or
most like the older papers he may have been referring to? He didn't say
specifically which papers he liked using, but did refer to the change (down) at
the introduction of multi-grade papers.
Here is a link to the article, if you're interested. I found it most
interesting to find that many of the "greats" didn't do their own printing.
That's not what I'd have imagined. Anyway, I have enjoyed it, and hope you do,
too.
[
http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2014/11/top-classic-yoja-mitrovic-printer-to-the-greats.html
](
http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2014/11/top-classic-yoja-mitrovic-printer-to-the-greats.html
)
Janet
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