What you remember is a bit out of date. I can use the Jaws mouse fine to find the items. I can select tools like buttons and check boxes and list boxes. Everything I need. The one thing that is missing was missing in c++ 6.0. How to get the items from the tool box to the form where we want them. I can select all the items on the form that I designed with the wizard but I can't find a place to put the mouse to actually drop and item all though I can see everything. Heck with system access's virtual mouse mode I can see more than I can see easily with jaws but there still is no place to drop new controls around controls I already have. If I start with a blank screen I could drop controls but then I have to deal with an hour of changing properties or more. I don't want to go that route if I have to do something like that I will use Visual studio and a DataSet first because the form designer is at least accessible in that. I wanted to use Access because what I am making is simple except for a couple combo box controls and a list box and a few buttons. I will probably end up having my wife drop the controls and then add the links that will be faster. I hate doing that because this stuff should be accessible. So first thing is first I am going to play with some scripts and see what I can get to work. Ken _____ From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of inthaneelf Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 2:37 PM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: Microsoft Access from what I remember of 2000, and yes I know that's a qualifier, there was... a grey square in the window that brought up a needed menu when it was clicked on. not having any talent in jaws scripting, I had another student talk me through it and I found out about this square, jaws didn't show it in any way I could recognize, so I wound up getting the jaws/mouse cursor on something I could find and identify in the screen, a numbered graphic, and then I used the arrow keys to move over to the square with the assistance of the student. counted how many left arrows and down arrows I used, and then from then on I could access it, a pain, but could do it. the items once on the form were findable, and app's keying them gave me the ability to move them. that's about all I can remember of that, whew that was in, like 2001, oof a few years back, lol! HTH, inthane ----- Original Message ----- From: Ken <mailto:whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Perry To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 1:58 PM Subject: RE: Microsoft Access When you say most of it can be done what I want to do is insert some buttons and sub forms with buttons. That I think is not something so far that is possible in Jaws yet. I was able to put a sub form in but putting an add orders part of the form with a list box and some edit boxes is not something that seems do-able. Ken _____ From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of inthaneelf Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 1:26 PM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: Microsoft Access I've used later versions of access with jaws and had only a few real troubles, and yes, they were in the forms designer, unfortunately the information I had and the book also, was on another computer that I don't have access (excuse the punishment!) to anymore, and I doubt that the material is still on it, *sigh* sorry, but I will say that most of it can be done, ken, if you get something going on this, please let me know what you wind up with, so I can (with permission) put them up on the grab bag, ok? take care, inthane ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Hofstader <mailto:chris.hofstader@xxxxxxxxxxx> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 3:17 AM Subject: RE: Microsoft Access The only hard core MS Access user I know who uses it with JAWS is Joe Lazarro (Jamal can send you his contact information as I seem to have misplaced it) who works for the Department of IT in the Massachusetts state government. Last time I talked to Joe, he said he still uses it with JAWS 3.51 as each JAWS release since works much less well with Access. Joe is a really smart and funny guy and a fun person to know. cdh From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ken Perry Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 2:57 AM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Microsoft Access I am looking for any tutorial on how to use Form design view with jaws. If its possible at all in Access. Ken __________ NOD32 3005 (20080406) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com