Re: Hello some idea to include a contract clause to protect against virtual machines
- From: Freek D'Hooge <freek.dhooge@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: jcdrpllist@xxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 09:44:25 +0100
Juan,
How do you deal with customers who have put the database on an
underpowered server or storage system?
In what way would such a situation be different from having a customer
who has put it on a wrongly configured virtual machine?
Kind regards,
--
Freek D'Hooge
Exitas NV
Senior Oracle DBA
email: freek.dhooge@xxxxxxxxx
tel +32(03) 443 12 38
http://www.exitas.be
On ma, 2014-11-24 at 18:15 -0400, Juan Carlos Reyes Pacheco wrote:
> Thank you Tim, the problem is if you don't do that then the customer,
> will expect you solve the problem that comes from the virtual
> misconfiguration, doing some kind of magic in the database.
>
>
> I was thinking something like
>
>
> "In the case of the use of virtualization, the customer is aware it
> can affect the support from Oracle, and in the case of a failure of
> performance or bug, he accept he may need to move the production
> environment to an standalone server to verify the bug or the
> performance problem is not a problem in the virtual machine."
>
>
>
> This keeps an open point, because in this moment that customer is
> expecting we solve something comes from the virtual server. Because we
> restarted the database, cleared the memory, etc. and only restarting
> the server the problem is solved. And is the only customer who has
> that problem, and other clients has identical software, and the
> database configuration is standard.
>
>
>
> 2014-11-24 10:28 GMT-04:00 Tim Gorman <tim@xxxxxxxxx>:
>
> Juan,
>
> There is an old saying that, "As soon as lawyers become
> involved, the relationship is over", and this is certainly
> true in a vendor-customer relationship. A lawyer will be glad
> to be paid to pursue such a case, but I suspect it would only
> irritate your customer and it is messy and expensive to amend
> contracts after the fact. Far easier to simply address the
> technical problem, for that is what it is. That is how
> "trusted advisors" are born.
>
> Virtual machines are usually allocated so as to "play nice" in
> a cluster, which means that resources such as vCPU and vRAM
> are shared back and forth, since each VM cannot always be
> allocated their configured amount at all times. It is intended
> for the total resource allocated in a virtualization cluster
> to exceed the physical capacity, at least in non-production
> environments.
>
> But over-subscribing virtual resources in a production
> environment is neither a good idea nor recommended, and that
> seems to be what has happened here, perhaps? So, it is not
> that virtualization is inherently "bad" for production, but
> badly administered.
>
> Think about it: demand for resources by the Oracle environment
> are peaking when demand for resources by the other VMs are
> also peaking, if they are supporting the same application.
> Unless otherwise configured, the hyper-visor has no choice but
> to *reduce* resource allocation across the board, due to the
> peak in demand by all. If the virtualization admins likely
> have graphs and reports showing this happening already.
>
> It might be a good idea to work with the virtualization
> admin(s) to diagnose whether this is happening or not, and
> decide whether to increase resource capacity in the cluster
> (i.e. buy more hardware) or set reservations on a minimal
> amount of vCPU or vRAM for the Oracle environment? This will
> permit the issue to be escalated as the simple technical issue
> of resource sharing that it is.
>
> At this point, IT management can be presented with the choices
> of A) increasing the capacity of the cluster and solving the
> problem or B) imposing reservations on certain VMs and
> micro-managing resource allocation.
>
> There is a further option "C" of tuning each of the critical
> virtual machines to dampen the peaks in demand of course, and
> this list can help with that.
>
> Hope this helps...
>
> -Tim
>
>
>
>
>
> On 11/24/14 6:46, Juan Carlos Reyes Pacheco wrote:
>
> Hello, please
> does anybody includes in the contract something
> against the use of virtual machines to install Oracle.
> One of our customer has a virtual machine that
> degrades the performance, and is necessary to restart
> the server periodically.
> They expect we solve something we can't solve, because
> the problem is in the virtual machine, other customer
> with the same software doesn't have that problem.
>
> I was asking myself if there is a "standard" clause in
> the contracts for the customer to free from problem
> related to virtual machines.
> In example I read there is no support from oracle for
> vmware machines, if you have a bug you have to
> demostrate this same bug happens in a physical
> installation too.
>
> Thank you :)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> //www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l
>
>
>
>
>
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